Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hey Y'all, I went to load some new brass tonight, and as I seated the bullet in the case, when I lowered the lever the brass had a pronounced wrinkle in it at the base of the bullet. I've tried backing out the seating die a bit, but it wrinkles (not sure of the term) when I seat the round fully. I'm using an RCBS press if it matters, and I've been lubing every third round. Any help would be appreciated, gents. Respectfully Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 You are probably not belling the case mouth enough with your expander die. Are you crimping and seating in the same operation? If so you may be over crimping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 More info is needed....What caliber are you loading. What kind of lube....how much? If it's a pistol straight-wall case, use carbide dies....no lube needed. If a rifle case....lay 25-50 out on a shop cloth and use Hornaday One Shot spray lube. A light quick shot...roll cases half turn...another quick shot....wait 1 minute....load. Belling the case mouth may help or adjusting the seat-crimp die. Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far, guys. I'm loading Winchester brass for 10mm. The bullets are 180gr hollow points. I've been using a light coat of the RCBS case lube, but since it's a straight wall case, I don't need it (didn't know that, actually, thanks!). I'll try going back and belling it out a bit more and see how that works. Will post results.... VR, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoda Ray Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Is your seating/crimping die adjusted properly? Maybe you are crimping before your bullet is fully seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Is your seating/crimping die adjusted properly? Maybe you are crimping before your bullet is fully seated. Is your crimping die clean, or is there lube/gunk built up in the recess? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollifer A. Dollar Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 This may sound dumb, but make sure your bullet seating die is assembled correctly. A friend of mine had the same problem loading 38s, he couldn't get a good crimp & every 3rd or 4th round would wrinkle like you described. He had disassembled his seating/crimping die to clean it & when he put it back together, he put the ram in upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Howdy You may not be doing anything wrong at all. It is quite common for the bullet to expand the case mouth just a bit so that the case is a tiny bit narrower under the bullet. I don't have a photo handy to show this, but I will try to find one later. 'Wrinkles' usually means irregularly shaped vertical dents in the case. These are usually caused by too much case lube. What happens is the lube acts as a liquid and cannot be compressed. When the case is sized, droplets of lube on the case dent the underlying brass. But if your bullet is expanding the neck enough that the case looks slightly 'wasp waisted' just under the bullet, that is very common and is not a problem. It is because the sizing die has squeezed the case mouth back down to the SAAMI specified diameter. Bullets are usually sized a tiny bit larger than the inside diameter of the resized case mouth. So when the bullet is shoved into the case mouth, it expands the case mouth slightly. This is done on purpose to create a friction fit between the bullet and the case mouth. Depending on the size of the bullet, it may be more or less noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I went to load some new brass tonight, and as I seated the bullet in the case, when I lowered the lever the brass had a pronounced wrinkle in it at the base of the bullet. Might be the term 'the brass had a pronounced wrinkle' is analogous to a cartridge that is not fire formed and the case is 'pregnant' because of the bullet diameter being larger than the ID of the case. That being said - the cases need to be expanded using an expander plug to allow the bullet to be seated with proper neck tension so as not to expand the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint 976 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Case lube is used when resizing brass. After resizing it should be cleaned/wiped off. There is no need for case lube in any operation after resizing the brass. The most common "wasp waist" cartridge I've reloaded is 38 or 357, never seen much of that effect in larger calibers. Crushing the case can occur, as others mentioned, if there is too little bell, or too much or too early a crimp. In any straight case like you are loading, get carbide dies so you won't need case lube. I only use lube on 44-40 and other bottleneck cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 get the dies clean and free of the unwanted case lube Yer dies are carbide and yer not wanting anything in em. Then if ya still have wrinkles, back off the crimp a whole bunch and advance the seating plug until ya seat one bullet with no crimp and tell us what ya got. if that fixes it, add in some crimp until yer happy, and readjust the seating plug to JUST touch the top of a "good" round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Just a quick update. I'm headed out to disassemble the dies and see what I can find out. Sincere thanks to you folks thus far for helping me out. More to follow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Remember that when you are loading a 10MM (semiauto, straight wall) case, you don't really apply crimp, you just straighten out the belling until the case has no belling left. Perhaps a very little bit of a taper crimp if you have hot loads. But even that will not be visible usually - it will take a caliper measurement to find it. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Yep, Driftwood Johnson nailed it....you cannot compress a liquid. It will dent the case. A 10mm Auto headspaces on the case mouth, so only use a light taper crimp...cuz you want the front edge to come in contact with the chamber at the right spot. Make sure you are using CARBIDE dies and no lube is needed. Good luck and let us know how things w**k out. Didn't wanna say the W word...ya get demerits for that around here. Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Box Willy Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Is this what it looks like? I neck sized a few cases but none of them came out very obviously "wrinkled" or bulged. Much easier to see in person but here's a pic. Once this case is fire formed athe neck sizing won't leave a mark. wrinkled case Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Howdy, Pard, All the above posts are good advice! If the "wasp waist" below the bullet is fairly uniform around the circumfrence of the case, then you are in fat city! Even if not completely semetrical, the only thing that might be affected would be accuracy, and not much at that. If you have to use a LOT of force to seat the bullet, then it might be that the expander plug is too small, but better that than too large a plug, which leaves the bullet loose in the case or at least able to be pushed back into the case or pulled out with your finger nails. NOT likely in 10 mm dies, however. This wasp waist business isn't a problem really. I load .44-40 brass (which is much thinner than 10 mm, and USE the wasp waist to keep the bullet from backing into the case. Some factory loads in some cartridges are actually manufactured with a crimp below the bullet base, which is much more pronounced than what was shown in the picture that Wagon Box Willy posted. It generally blows out on firing. Happy Holidays, all! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your Pard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Use younger brass. eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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