Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Here is a little bit different call to figure out. At our monthly match we use one "set-up" for multiple stages, using different shooting orders and movement patterns for each stage. On some of the stages there are targets which, while they are still there, are not part of particular stage. Here's the pertinent details: there were three shooting locations along the line with two shotgun targets (knockdowns) in front of each,. On the stage in question the shooter engaged rifle and two sg knockdowns at position 1; took sg to position 2, set it down and engage pistol targets only; took sg to position 3 and engaged two sg knockdowns. The shooter in question (who shall remain nameless because he wrote the stages) moved to position 2 and engaged the two sg knockdowns before engaging the pistol targets. Should this be a procedural 10 second penalty, or is it just take the extra time and grin and bear it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 for the purpose of the stage, those targets were not there. time wasted should be penalty enough. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Your description of how the stage was supposed to be shot seems to be lacking. Is this a 10-10-6+ stage? Not unheard of. Or was it a 10-10-4+ stage. It's not clear in the OP. You don't mention if there was a mandated shooting order. If there was and the shooter shot guns out of order...P. If the instructions were to engage the targets in any order...no call. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 After the pistols did he/she go to position 3 and engage those two SG targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 If I'm understanding you correctly, and he just shot two EXTRA shotgun targets that he wasn't supposed to, but he shot the rest of the stage correctly, then I would say no call, just wasted time shooting the wrong targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 ... On the stage in question the shooter engaged rifle and two sg knockdowns at position 1; took sg to position 2, set it down and engage pistol targets only; took sg to position 3 and engaged two sg knockdowns. The shooter in question (who shall remain nameless because he wrote the stages) moved to position 2 and engaged the two sg knockdowns before engaging the pistol targets. Should this be a procedural 10 second penalty, or is it just take the extra time and grin and bear it? Question for clarity: Did the shooter then move to position 3 and engage the last two SG KD's as required? Technically, it COULD be a "P" for: • Firing any firearm from a position or location other than as required by the stage description. ...but, IMO, the 'self-imposed' time penalty for engaging the two "non-targets" at position 2 is penalty enough. Suggestion: Next time leave any KD's that are NOT part of the stage DOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Since the shotgun targets did not belong to the stage, they were not there. So they could not be hit, so the shots were misses - 5 seconds each. If they were made up on the correct targets, then no misses. Clarifying. The "-" is a "dash" rather than a "minus" So give them a penalty of 5 seconds for each miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Since the shotgun targets did not belong to the stage, they were not there. So they could not be hit, so the shots were misses - 5 seconds each. If they were made up on the correct targets, then no misses. I'm sure you meant PLUS 5 but still, the shooter could empty his SG belt if he wants to...no call. That would be like calling a miss when a shooter mistakenly shoots at a SG target that is down but the shooter couldn't tell and thought it was up. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Think I'm confused or not understanding.... but that ain't nuthin' new.. Postition #1: Engage rifle targets (shooter did) and then engage 2 shotgun knockdowns (Shooter did) Take Shotgun with you to...(shooter did) Position #2: and set it down (shooter did not) He shot his shotgun out of order... Now what the OP doesn't say... Did he shoot the 2 KD's placed at #2 position in error taking more time for himself? Or the 2 kd's that are at the #3 position... different calls on which kd's he shot.. sounds like he shot 2 extra kd's at the #2 position.. but it doesn't say that he continued on after shooting his pistols to Position #3 to shoot the other 2 shotgun KD's.. Rance thinkin' more info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 MDQ !!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Question for clarity: Did the shooter then move to position 3 and engage the last two SG KD's as required? Technically, it COULD be a "P" for: • Firing any firearm from a position or location other than as required by the stage description. ...but, IMO, the 'self-imposed' time penalty for engaging the two "non-targets" at position 2 is penalty enough. Suggestion: Next time leave any KD's that are NOT part of the stage DOWN. Thanks, Pale Wolf. For clarity, the shooter did move to position three and complete the stage correctly. Only the two "extra" shots at position two were outside the instructions. After that the two knockdowns in question were left down (they had been reset after the prior stage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I really appreciate stage writers, even when some of the stages are difficult to understand. Since this shooter was the stagewriter and the handbook makes no clear reference, no penalty, keep the extra time, hopes the stage writer learns. Just think of t as extra SG practice. When we use SG kd's that are not used on a stage, we make sure that they are down before starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Red Ryder Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Reshoot! as the stage was modified after his shooting by letting the KD targets on position 2 down for other shooters. Shooting conditions were not the same for all the shooters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 IF the shooter in question shot the stage correctly EXCEPT for shooting the two "extry" shotgun targets, I'd say no call. I can see an argument for a P. The stage was "shot out of order" HOWEVER, the two shotgun targets engaged were not part of the "stage" so.....no call. And no, I didn't read any other posts except for #1 and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.....wouldn't help anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Reshoot! as the stage was modified after his shooting by letting the KD targets on position 2 down for other shooters. Shooting conditions were not the same for all the shooters! I considered that option as well. Question as to whether the posse does a reading of each stage procedure before they start shooting. The setup error should have been noticed ... especially by "Nameless Stagewriter"...since he was the first shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I have two issues. The shooter when reaching position two, shot the shotgun before the pistols. The instructions said pistols. Not shotgun. Second. The shotgun was shot from the wrong position per instructions even if the correct targets where hit or not. Either one would earn a "P" in my opinion. Even if the correct shotgun targets were hit, they were hit out of order and not available to make up when reaching position 3. Whether the shooter took more time to do this is not relevant. The "P" is for shooting guns out of order and from wrong position according to the instructions. No consideration given to whether the Knockdown targets where up or down for others. That is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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