Out of battery discharge with a Marlin?

[Doc Fill 'Em 67797]

So, on the last stage today, I'm shooting my Marlin 38/357 Cowboy. Ninth round made a real loud BOOM, much louder than the other rounds. Could not chamber the tenth round. I'm thinking that tenth round is bad, so I kick it out, reach to my belt for another, throw it in the receiver, can't close the lever all the way. Kick that one out, try another. Still won't close. Put the rifle down, ran to the shotgun and finished the stage. At the ULT we're looking at the rifle, trying to see what's wrong. Lever will close without a round in the gun, won't close with a round. Round only goes in about halfway. OK, must be something stuck in the chamber. Get a rod, tapped out a bullet about where the rifling begins. Somebody says out-of-battery discharge. All the fired brass looked good, no blown-out case. Couldn't tell any difference with the gun other than the much louder sound of that one round. The gun has some action work, the lever safety is not removed, don't see how it would fire out-of-battery. Weird.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

One piece firing pin? FP tip possibly protruding out of the bolt and stuck? Upon closing the action the protruding FP struck the primer before cartridge is completely in the chamber? Gases escaped around the case and not enough umph to push the bullet out of the barrel and therefore bullet stuck in the chamber? Luckily you are not able to load another round and fired it, would be a catastrophe. Possibly enough of the chamber surround the cartridge, therefore no blown cases? Are you sure you got all of your empty cases back and not someone else's? Possibly you need to investigate this a little further. Don't want that to happen again. Good luck and be safe.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

It possibly cud have been the extractor that hit the primer....unless they've been worked on to cure the catridge from flopping around on the way up the extractor may have hit the primer. should have ruptured the case, tho with lite loads that may not have occured.

 

Hmmmmm, next time give up the shot sooner tuu....

 

I was thinking that the round before may have been a squib, but then yu shud have found 2 boolits, maybe the second pushed the first out but lost the energy to exit on the first?

 

in other words,,,hmmmm I guess i dunt hav a clew....

 

be safe

 

Cheyenne, whu has a "ring" in his marlin's barrel, Coolpeppah

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I have a one piece firing pin......so do alot of folks much faster than me. yikes...

 

Let us know after more CSI work on the cause.

 

Glad your ok

 

GG ~

[Doc Shapiro]

Check for a ringed barrel....

[Bucky Buscadero, SASS #73085]

So, on the last stage today, I'm shooting my Marlin 38/357 Cowboy. Ninth round made a real loud BOOM, much louder than the other rounds. Could not chamber the tenth round. I'm thinking that tenth round is bad, so I kick it out, reach to my belt for another, throw it in the receiver, can't close the lever all the way. Kick that one out, try another. Still won't close. Put the rifle down, ran to the shotgun and finished the stage. At the ULT we're looking at the rifle, trying to see what's wrong. Lever will close without a round in the gun, won't close with a round. Round only goes in about halfway. OK, must be something stuck in the chamber. Get a rod, tapped out a bullet about where the rifling begins. Somebody says out-of-battery discharge. All the fired brass looked good, no blown-out case. Couldn't tell any difference with the gun other than the much louder sound of that one round. The gun has some action work, the lever safety is not removed, don't see how it would fire out-of-battery. Weird.

 

 

Hi Doc. Your post sure got my attention. Exactly what you described happend to my better half at a match earlier in the month. Same rifle, Marlin Cowboy 38/357. Occured on last rifle round on a stage, as next stage she was unable to cycle a round. Upon investigation found a bullet was lodged in the barrel, just far enough in the barrel to keep another round from chambering. A little good luck to temper the bad - if that bullet had travelled far enough to allow another round to chamber the ending of the story could have been a lot different. Did not find any blown out or split brass, no explaination for what happened. Only clue was a spotter said he thought that round had sounded "different" when it was fired. Was thinking it was a squib due to a bad round, but thinking about it more after reading your post, even a case with only a primer and no powder should have sent the bullet further down the barrel. Where it was does seem to indicate an out of battery discharge. Hmmmm. Have not had any issues since, but would like to know what happened in order to avoid that same sort of occurence in the future.

 

Bucky

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Ninth round made a real loud BOOM, much louder than the other rounds

 

Was the ninth round a hit or a miss?? If it was a miss did they see the miss?? If so then you had two bullets in one case, the loud boom from the exccess pressure, enough to send one bullet down range and the other stuck in the barrel. Just thinkin' out loud.

 

 

Jefro

[Manatee]

I'm sorta thinkin' Jefro may have the answer. I don't think a one-piece pin would be the cause of your problem.

[Dubious Don #56333]

Was the ninth round a hit or a miss?? If it was a miss did they see the miss?? If so then you had two bullets in one case, the loud boom from the exccess pressure, enough to send one bullet down range and the other stuck in the barrel. Just thinkin' out loud.

 

 

Jefro

 

 

Noope, ain't gonna happen. With two bullets in the case BOTH would have gone down the bore and out. Case rupture, probable. What do we know?

 

Shooter says ninth round went BOOM! Not consistent with a squib.

 

Shooter finds bullet in throat of rifle. Consistent with a squib. BOOM + squib = Don't add up.

 

Shooter did not find a blown case. If this had been an out of battery discharge, there WOULD have been a blown case. There's no way an out of battery discharge will NOT blow a case. BOOM + no ruptured case + bullet stuck in the bore = none of it adds up!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I must admit that the protruding firing pin theory was my first thought.

 

And Jefro's theory was my second thought.

 

And here is my third thought, based on a similar experience:

 

If your previous round (the one that is being considered the out of battery discharge) has a case separation out towards the neck area, this would give the BOOM effect and probably just lodge the bullet about where you found it.

Some of the .38/.357 brass has a little canalure type ring pressed into the brass. Some of these rings are located out close to the case mouth, about where the base of the bullet would sit in the case. This is a weak spot in brass of this type and although rare, can separate at that ring.

Upon checking your brass, you might not even notice that one piece is alittle shorter than the others until you put them side by side for comparison.

Also, if your chamber is a .38/.357 chamber, that little case ring can still be lodged in your chamber and you might not even notice it if your only using .38 brass.

 

I actually had a case separate on me like this once and although it was in a Ruger pistol, the outcome mirrored your situation.

 

Check the chamber of your Marlin to insure nothing else is there.

 

As mentioned, this is just a thought.

 

..........Widder

[Howdy Doody]

I had a case seperate and blow the bolt rearward and lever forward while shooting a Marlin. The head of the cartridge a 38 spl, hit a spotter and drew a little blood even. It probably was a lot different sounding, since the BP lit off in the receiver and not the chamber and the RO (China Camp) who was super savvy, had me ground the rifle and go on to I think it was shotgun next. At the unloading table a bullet was found starting in the grooves and had marks on it about half way from the rifling. We got it out with a range rod and I attribute the whole bad experience to a bad piece of brass that was probably many times fired and weak to have the head seperate like that. I do not remember if I even knew what headstamp it had. I went to a backup rifle and when at home and cleaning I could find no problem anywhere, so the next time out I cautiously fired some rounds through it before the match and then shot it. Many rounds have gone through it since with no problems like that again.

Probably, you may never find out the exact cause, but it was good that no damage was done, but please inspect carefully before shooting it again.

[McKenzie River Drifter, #74138]

With the bolt removed from the rifle, if you shake it from front to back as in the gun, you should be able to hear the firing pin move in the bolt. If you cannot, clean the bolt by soaking in something like Ballistol or removing the firing pin and cleaning. If the firing pin is sticking, I have seen it cause missfires and I suspect it might under the right circumstances cause a open bolt firing.

 

Just the view from my rocking horse

 

McKenzie

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

I have a one piece firing pin......so do alot of folks much faster than me. yikes...

 

Let us know after more CSI work on the cause.

 

Glad your ok

 

GG ~

 

One piece not the culprit. fear not.

[Howdy Doody]

re read my post and I should have also stated that I had as I recall I had pulled the trigger and had the bolt closed. That was what was strange to me. That the bolt locking device allowed the bolt to start back on it's own. The bolt lock and the trigger safety I inspected and checked really well. This even happening at least 6 years ago, still troubles me that I never found the exact culprit, but the case did separate and cleanly too. The case head was missing and then found, that hit the spotter and the rest of the case was there in the receiver on the grounded rifle. If I remember right there was a couple more rounds in the magazine to go.