Doc Nelson #19958 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Okay, I started reloading last night after a few months of not doing any. I did my normal pre-startup checks and maintenance on the blue 650. I've been reloading for 30 years now, 8-10 years on the 650. During the first 100 rounds I glanced into the cartridge collector and low and behold, an empty casing! Yep, it was primed, yep there was powder in the bin. Out comes the scale, I weigh the finished bullets until I find a heavy one, there was barely any bulge in the .38 casing but there were 2 125 grain bullets in it. I finished weighing the rest but I was reasonably sure I had found the potential disaster. Upon inspection of the empty case, it was split, I either missed it during inspection or it split upon resizing, either way, it did not hold the bullet in during seating and somehow the bullet stayed in the die. I felt a difference while running the press but I thought a .357 case had gotten mixed in so I was looking on the right side of the plate when the problem was on the left side. It felt just like a longer case was being belled or a dirty case was being sized. In all my years of reloading, this is the first instance for me of such a potential hazard. I had one squib once when using a 550 so I figured the 650 would be a good upgrade. Be vigilant, be consistent and be safe out there! Doc Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I load 350-500 rounds per month on a single-stage press and have never, never, never in 25 years had a dud or a backwards primer or a double-charge or any other such compromise that I hear of with these progressive tools. Reloading is half the fun, especially in WCF short rounds. Guess I just don't understand the contraption attraction. Glad to hear that no one got hurt and no gun was destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Doc, this is one of the best advices for a reloader to get and be reminded of all the time. I use the SDB. I load ALOT! on a couple occasions, I've had enough lube build up inside my seater that a bullet would stick up in it. Then the next round would get a bullet I placed on top PLUS, the bullet stuck in the seater would also seat. Yep, the tale/tale sign of an empty case and spilt powder in the catch-ben will tell ya that something when 'Murphy' on ya. Thats one of the reasons to empty your ben every 50 or so rounds. Makes finding that 'bad' one much easier. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 And never try to babysit a yappy little dog while reloading. It's a good way to load a shotshell with no shot. One of the Top Ten Rules: No Distractions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I load 350-500 rounds per month on a single-stage press and have never, never, never in 25 years had a dud or a backwards primer or a double-charge or any other such compromise that I hear of with these progressive tools. Reloading is half the fun, especially in WCF short rounds. Guess I just don't understand the contraption attraction.Glad to hear that no one got hurt and no gun was destroyed. Hear hear! It may take a bit longer but mistakes are less likely to happen. I also choose a full charge of black powder in my 45 LC so I can't throw a double charge, it's impossible! Same for double bullets. I also never shoot anyone else's ammo, just my own because I can certify that the ammo is OK and safe to shoot. My son has often offered to help and load my ammo for me, at which I politely deny his offer for help for the same reason. If there IS to be a range ammo problem, then let it be my fault in loading, not mine for absentmindedly using ammo loaded by someone else. In my younger years I once used a shotgun round loaded by a friend out of my Mossberg bolt action 12 ga. It ended up being a double charge and fused the bolt into the receiver ruining both bolt and receiver (the whole gun). From that point forward I stuck to my own ammo loaded on single stage presses only. Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 What Widder said. I had the same thing happen to me on my 550B a year or so ago. What I found was a seating die that had gotten gummed up with bullet lube from the thousands and thousands of previously seated bullets... each adding their minute amount of lube to the seater plug until one day... it had enough gunk in there to grab hold and keep the bullet. I was loading my pistol 185grain bullets which don't have a crimp groove, but was trying to just turn the lip into the lead... works great, except for that Taking the seater out of the die and cleaning it all out, had me back runnin' without a hitch. Now I watch how much excess lube I have on the bullets as I set them on the charged cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I try to clean the seating and crimping dies on my 650 every 4-500 rounds at least. I went through something similar this winter and weighed several hundred rounds and found no extra lead in a piece of brass and chocked it up to not putting a bullet on one round. Your round would have never passed a case checker and that is why we run 100% of our loads through a case checker after loading them before boxing them. Also guarantees every single rifle round will go into the chamber cutting down out of battery discharge potential to almost zero. Congratulations on finding the issue. Just ignore all the single stage loader comments they are just envious of your 650. If I had to load on a single stage press I would quit shooting or buy all my ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burly Bear Fred Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Sooo would that be considered a Double Tap Round when fired to make up for a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I load 350-500 rounds per month on a single-stage press and have never, never, never in 25 years had a dud or a backwards primer or a double-charge or any other such compromise that I hear of with these progressive tools. Reloading is half the fun, especially in WCF short rounds. Guess I just don't understand the contraption attraction. Glad to hear that no one got hurt and no gun was destroyed. I shoot +400rd per weekend. Try keeping up with that on your single stage. Doc, one of (your) the regional bullet supplies has horrible lube that builds up in your seater die rather rapidly. Ck your seating die often so the build up can be controled and doesn't produce the situation you discribed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Gollleee, sounds like them progressive machines are nothing but trouble. Double charges, high primers, two bullets inna case.... Glad I kept my old reliable Rock Chucker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 He who lives in glass house shouldn't chuck rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Nelson #19958 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Having used a single stage press for years and years, and now using the 650 for three shooters, there is no way I'd go back to a single stage except for tiny runs, like for my 45-70 or .32 pocket pistols. With the powder check and auto-indexing, I've never had a squib or double charge or any other problem. I just happened to have the first problem now. I checked the die, there was no real issue with lube build-up, I still don't know how the bullet managed to remain in the die until the next round. There is just no way I can take the time to reload on a single stage press for the kind of volume three shooters go through on just 2 matches a month. Once the Dillon is set-up properly, and the operator understands the processes, it is rock solid dependable through thousands and thousands of rounds. I bet I reload upwards of 10,000 rounds before switching calibers or take-down and cleaning. But...operator error is another story. Never let yourself tune out, listen to TV or radio or anything that gets your mind off reloading. I hate being interrupted because I feel like I have to essentially 'start over' and double check everything. I can't count the number of times I've pulled a wad out of a shotshell, or double checked the primer seat or any number of other steps just to be sure I was where I thought I was. That is why I only reload when I 'feel' like it. Doc Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I can give you about five hundred reasons per hour to use a 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I can give you about five hundred reasons per hour to use a 650. Hey Buck, I can give you a thousand reasons . Also some of us load for two or more and shoot a few matches a month plus that evil word practice. Saying that progressive machines are inherently unreliable and unsafe is ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch McGie, SASS#71758 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Having had a similar experience, on my SDB, i always clean the dies whenever the primer catcher cup fills up - around 500 rds. To check for powder in a loaded round, insert the loaded case in the spout of a small funnel, hold the big end next to your ear, and shake the funnel with the round in it. You can hear the powder granules scratching around. No scratching = pull the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardscrabble,SASS#41292 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 When using a progressive press ,if something doesn't feel right or just feels different ,it's usually because something isn't right,best to check right then for the problem.At least that's my experience,if the pressure to move the lever changes check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I shoot +400rd per weekend. Try keeping up with that on your single stage. Doc, one of (your) the regional bullet supplies has horrible lube that builds up in your seater die rather rapidly. Ck your seating die often so the build up can be controled and doesn't produce the situation you discribed. Yep. For that very reason (and supplier) I clean my 550 at the end of each session (usually 500 rounds). That way when I start the next time it is good to go with no issues. I will normally load 3 or 4 nights in a row and that will hold me for a couple months worth of matches and practice. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 It could be that that one bullet is oversized or never sized to proper diameter. Even with a little lube in the seater die would be enough to get a hold of that bullet. Probably, or it's possible or it could be. Who knows? Just speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hear hear! It may take a bit longer but mistakes are less likely to happen. I also choose a full charge of black powder in my 45 LC so I can't throw a double charge, it's impossible! Same for double bullets. Smithy. Sounds like that recipe is progressive proof... I had a 209 primer go one day almost on its own, wasn't seating, wasn't doing anything, it was in position when the shell plate rotated above it. There are two kinds of re-loaders, those that have had a issue and those that will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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