Bad day in Tucson

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

Just saw an interview with him. He helped tackle and hold the shooter while he was attempting to reload, but did not draw his weapon. Said he did not want to make the situation any worse. Think he's a hero in my book.

 

I wish he had shoot the Dirtbag DRT. Then the press would have to make the CCP holder the hero for sure.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Nichols Creek :

FOX just reported that he had TRIED to join the military, but was denied.

 

Doc Disaster :

The Army provided this statement:

"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."

 

Thanx for the updates and corrections gents. The original info I had seen was from, I think, the LA Times website.

 

A bad way to start a new year. We can be sure the anti crowd is already ramping up.

 

I think we would be well advised to all send an e-mail or letter to our reps (state and federal) urging calm and reason instead of caving in to the shrill voices who care not a whit for The Constitution.

 

On Saturday the estimated 200,000,000 gun owners in this country did not commit any criminal acts. This is an isolated incident perpetrated by a lunatic, and no number of laws can ever defend against someone like this.

[Kidd AtHeart SASS # 74179]

Please accept my PRAYERS TO THE FAMILIES as well.

[Go West]

No one deserves to be shot and/or killed.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

No doubt Congress will work on more laws, totally ignoring the fact it is all ready illegal to murder people in general and congressional people have a separate law protecting them, but there are those that will still commit the crimes, must be why they are called law breakers and criminals. Laws really do not protect anyone, the real protection comes from the vast majority of the people being willing to obey the laws and act right. Our country was founded on the presumption that free men know right from wrong and will inherently adhere to the right. It is very tragic that there are those who knowing commit these heinous acts. Especially in light of the fact most of them leave notes or social media messages indicating they know what they plan on doing is wrong. In this case the wacko asked his my space buddies not to be mad at him.

[LEAD BANE, SASS 70197]

No one deserves to be shot and/or killed.

 

Maybe you might reword that. Or all police, military and law abiding citizens need to just start using the verbal judo.

[Palindrome, SASS #54445]

My daughter is a pastry chef in a restaurant right across the street from the Safeway. She finally had time to watch the news and saw the shooter's picture and heard his name. She worked with him for a couple of years at Red Robin. She said she had some fairly long talks with him and he was pretty whacked out then. He was a nihilist and had some pretty bizarre ideas. Part of his mantra was to never get active but only to observe the world. She was amazed, knowing him, that he could do this hideous thing. She's going to call the FBI in case she can help with any additional background.

[Packrat Ron]

Do not agree - too quick judgment without enough facts. Certainly she is a public figure and that makes her a visible figurehead for something, but not necessarily in terms of left/right, or republican/democrat. No one know for sure what motivates one like this (especially this early), much less if he is insane. From what I've read of his posts, he is all over the map.

 

Only ONE PERSON is responsible for our actions and that is the one looking back in the mirror. I'm a little fed up with the lack of personal responsibility in our society today and the garbage that someone else has to be at fault.

 

That said, clear fomenting of violence is not acceptable.

 

Just heard the first calls on a couple networks for increased gun control based on the fact that "this guy was obviously insane, but could just walk in and buy & carry a gun in AZ." The second amendment repercussions are what I fear here..

 

Harvey

Off to bed for some shuteye before 5AM flight to the font of all wisdom - Washington DC.

 

100% agree that everyone is responsible for their own actions. The American way anymore seems to be to find someone or something else to blame for everything that happens, whether it be accidental or intentional.

 

And we all know that even if we had Chicago's gun laws here in Tucson, this guy still would have gotten a gun.

[Badlands Beady]

I've been following the story on CBS and CNN and, as of last night, I hadn't heard anyone calling for increased gun control. There were a few mentions of the shooter's extended magazines, but only as a matter of fact, not of controversy. The closest thing I've heard to an "outcry," so far is that a lot of folk are saying that the shooter is precisely the kind of wingnut who is most likely to be inflamed and driven to action by all the political hostility and rhetoric of the past year or so.

 

One thing I notice has been missing, here, amongst the talk of "liberals" and gun control, is the fact that the Congresswoman is, herself, a pro-gun liberal.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

The closest thing I've heard to an "outcry," so far is that a lot of folk are saying that the shooter is precisely the kind of wingnut who is most likely to be inflamed and driven to action by all the political hostility and rhetoric of the past year or so.

 

All the "rhetoric" just means people are better informed and more involved in the political process nowadays instead of being the sheeple who blindly trust the politicos.

 

This guy fits the pattern of assassins or wannabes for more than 100 years.

 

Lynette Fromme (Ford) = involved in revolutionary politics.

Samuel Byck (Nixon) = had a grudge against the government.

Lee Harvey Oswald (Kennedy) = known Communist.

Oscar Collazo and Griseola Toresollo (Truman) = revolutionaries.

Guiseppe Zangara (FDR) = had a grudge against the government / wanted to kill "all kings and capitalists".

John Schrank (Teddy Roosevelt) = opposed 3rd term presidencies / blamed TR for McKinley's death.

Leon Czolgosz (McKinley) = anarchist.

Gaetano Bresci (King Umberto of Italy) = anarchist.

Charles Guiteau (Garfield) = grudge against the government.

 

And now we have this Jared Loughner character, who lists his favorite books on his webpage as "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf".

 

The connection between all of them? They're all leftists. Not a Tea Party member or conservative in the bunch.

[Border Ruffian]

Where was the security? This is a horrible tradgedy but it should be noted that even the smallest of security precautions were not taken. This is unacceptable. If a deranged loser caould do this, what about Al Queda and their proxies? The terrorist attacks on the recruting station and FT Hood are examples. The real issue isn't gun control, it's security. One or two off duty police officers hired as security could have prevented most if not all of this tradgic event.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

All the "rhetoric" just means people are better informed and more involved in the political process nowadays instead of being the sheeple who blindly trust the politicos.

 

This guy fits the pattern of assassins or wannabes for more than 100 years.

 

Lynette Fromme (Ford) = involved in revolutionary politics.

Samuel Byck (Nixon) = had a grudge against the government.

Lee Harvey Oswald (Kennedy) = known Communist.

Oscar Collazo and Griseola Toresollo (Truman) = revolutionaries.

Guiseppe Zangara (FDR) = had a grudge against the government / wanted to kill "all kings and capitalists".

John Schrank (Teddy Roosevelt) = opposed 3rd term presidencies / blamed TR for McKinley's death.

Leon Czolgosz (McKinley) = anarchist.

Gaetano Bresci (King Umberto of Italy) = anarchist.

Charles Guiteau (Garfield) = grudge against the government.

 

And now we have this Jared Loughner character, who lists his favorite books on his webpage as "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf".

 

The connection between all of them? They're all leftists. Not a Tea Party member or conservative in the bunch.

I'm not sure where having The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf listed as favorite books makes you a leftist, though maybe schizophrenic.

[Dusty Morningwood]

I'm not sure where having The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf listed as favorite books makes you a leftist, though maybe schizophrenic.

Hell, I have read them both, along with other books by people who have had major impacts on world history. That is merely a sign of intellectual curiosity rather than ideology. And I am neither Nazi, Communist nor the dreaded hybrid Commie-Nazi bandied about these days. Schizophrenia comes in many forms. The guy is simply a sick puppy who did not know who or what he was or wanted to be. Don't know if he wanted to be famous, but now he is infamous.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I've been following the story on CBS and CNN and, as of last night, I hadn't heard anyone calling for increased gun control. There were a few mentions of the shooter's extended magazines, but only as a matter of fact, not of controversy. The closest thing I've heard to an "outcry," so far is that a lot of folk are saying that the shooter is precisely the kind of wingnut who is most likely to be inflamed and driven to action by all the political hostility and rhetoric of the past year or so.

 

One thing I notice has been missing, here, amongst the talk of "liberals" and gun control, is the fact that the Congresswoman is, herself, a pro-gun liberal.

 

Here we go.....just a matter of time....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/201101...ontrolmeasure_1

 

 

GG ~

[Pack Saddle Slim, SASS #73122]

A now the Sheriff of Pima County is blaming Sara Palin, talk radio, etc. for stirring up the "vitriolic" situation there in Tucson. Oh brother, give me a break!

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

I've been following the story on CBS and CNN and, as of last night, I hadn't heard anyone calling for increased gun control. There were a few mentions of the shooter's extended magazines, but only as a matter of fact, not of controversy. The closest thing I've heard to an "outcry," so far is that a lot of folk are saying that the shooter is precisely the kind of wingnut who is most likely to be inflamed and driven to action by all the political hostility and rhetoric of the past year or so.

 

One thing I notice has been missing, here, amongst the talk of "liberals" and gun control, is the fact that the Congresswoman is, herself, a pro-gun liberal.

Beady The call for increased gun control http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...0,4072287.story Adios Sgt. Jake

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

A now the Sheriff of Pima County is blaming Sara Palin, talk radio, etc. for stirring up the "vitriolic" situation there in Tucson. Oh brother, give me a break!

 

It's sickening ain't it. I understand that Mike Moore (the satirical conspirical movie director fella) said "If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 (politicians), then 1 of them got shot, where would he be sitting right now? Just asking."

 

Now...what kind of bogus thinking is that? I'm befuddled....

 

Oh well...back to my desk to daydream about Deuce's shotgun technique

 

GG ~

[Packrat Ron]

Sheriff Dupnik has been on my "Vote against" list for some time now. He also speaks out against SB1070, and has had problems controlling his anger on local talk radio shows about that subject, to the point of embarrassing himself (in my opinion). No doubt that is why he speaks out about the radio and television personnel. What happened in Tucson has nothing to do with political rhetoric. That subject has only come about due to Sheriff Dupnik expressing his personal opinion and anger on national television. He of course is entitled to his opinion and I can understand seeing this from his position being very angry about it, as everyone is, but as a professional I feel he has been out of line at these news conferences. Jared Loughner is solely responsible for this crime, and that is where the blame should stay.

 

It's a shame Sheriff Dupnik doesn't feel any of the victims of this crime should have had the right to be armed and protect themselves (and others) should they have chosen to do so. He obviously can't have a deputy assigned to each of us.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

Its not more gun control that we need _It,s more crazy people control thats needed

Bet his name was not in any data base saying he was unbalanced-His College knew it.

[Brasspounder, SASS #9076]

I see a couple US Representatives have decided to carry concealed when "out and about"...

One from Utah and one from North Carolina....(Fox News had it on their ticker this afternoon).

 

Good idea. More of 'em ought to do it.

 

In fact, they should put their pistols on the podium during "town hall" meetings

so as to have it near at hand if/when some wacko decides to throw down on them.

 

Or at least have one or two bodyguards right beside them properly heeled and keeping an eye on things..

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Its not more gun control that we need _It,s more crazy people control thats needed

Bet his name was not in any data base saying he was unbalanced-His College knew it.

 

For over 30 years, since the advent of fairly effective anti-psychotic meds (If they take em, which the paranoid will not), the mental health care system has been "reformed" (aka gutted) in this country. In this day and age, in the US, unless yer an emminent, credible threat to self or others (which means ya almost gotta have a gun in hand or be cutting yourself NOW), they CAN'T get ya help unless you want it. Yes, dear friends, the crazy person gets to choose, and nobody, not a parent of an adult child, child of a demented parent, college, employer, or even a cop can do a darned thing about it. It's been that way since the Flower Power revolution of the 60s, and the repeal of "anti-crazy" laws so the hippies could wander around and nobody could stop em from talking to the flowers. The parents of these college dropouts and draft dodgers did that, and the lawmakers backed their play. More recently INSURANCE lobbyists have weakened the laws in order to cut down on services provided. States were happy to shutter hospitals that were a huge expense. Liberal Psychologists and pharmaceutical companies crowed about Thorazine, Haldol, etc, which DO work, except for when the paranoid refuse to take them.....

 

DO NOT fault the well-meaning college folks who absolutely did try and get this kid helped (five times they called the law before finally dumping hm as disruptive) and his parents likely tried too. Fault the shambles that is the system that hamstrings the best of intentions until and unless the crazy actually DO something or try to. Talking crazy is NOT a crime in the US, nor is it justification to bring unwanted help to bear upon the paranoid. FIX THAT, dear congress, and ya might have less to worry about.

[Blastmaster]

For over 30 years, since the advent of fairly effective anti-psychotic meds (If they take em, which the paranoid will not), the mental health care system has been "reformed" (aka gutted) in this country. In this day and age, in the US, unless yer an emminent, credible threat to self or others (which means ya almost gotta have a gun in hand or be cutting yourself NOW), they CAN'T get ya help unless you want it. Yes, dear friends, the crazy person gets to choose, and nobody, not a parent of an adult child, child of a demented parent, college, employer, or even a cop can do a darned thing about it. It's been that way since the Flower Power revolution of the 60s, and the repeal of "anti-crazy" laws so the hippies could wander around and nobody could stop em from talking to the flowers. The parents of these college dropouts and draft dodgers did that, and the lawmakers backed their play. More recently INSURANCE lobbyists have weakened the laws in order to cut down on services provided. States were happy to shutter hospitals that were a huge expense. Liberal Psychologists and pharmaceutical companies crowed about Thorazine, Haldol, etc, which DO work, except for when the paranoid refuse to take them.....

 

DO NOT fault the well-meaning college folks who absolutely did try and get this kid helped (five times they called the law before finally dumping hm as disruptive) and his parents likely tried too. Fault the shambles that is the system that hamstrings the best of intentions until and unless the crazy actually DO something or try to. Talking crazy is NOT a crime in the US, nor is it justification to bring unwanted help to bear upon the paranoid. FIX THAT, dear congress, and ya might have less to worry about.

 

 

+++1

 

I believe you have stated the root of the problem very well. Unfortunitely, the situtation will only worsen as time goes on and more and more mentally unstable people are allowed on the streets. The present and any future economic/unemployment situations will only add mental stress and dispare to a portion of the populations and that will add a certain amount of more mentally ill person that could turn to violance.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

It's a shame Sheriff Dupnik doesn't feel any of the victims of this crime should have had the right to be armed and protect themselves (and others) should they have chosen to do so. He obviously can't have a deputy assigned to each of us.

 

Seems he couldn't be bothered to assign a deputy to Griffords' event either.

 

I listened to him rant about some talk show hosts spouting off with incorrect information, but there he was doing the same thing. Their exercise of free speech is inflammatory, but his is OK whether you like it or not.

 

Can't have it both ways.