Shotgun loads

[Nickle]

["Big Boston"]

Both those wads are Winchester, and they are taper hull compatible. If you measure the gas seal it will be less than 0.740, which is the ID of a straight walled hull. 

 

I just measured a AA Red, like the top one in your picture and it is 0.705". The AA12F114 I measured is a few thou smaller, about 0.702. Full choke on a 12 gauge is around 0.694". The card and the associated fiber wads made by Circle Fly for 12 gauge are 0.740" in diameter. Those are for straight walled hulls. 

 

Most shotshell reloaders just hit the easy button, use AA hulls, Winchester wads, a MEC reloader and never dig any deeper than that. I've done a bit of reloading outside those boundaries, and things can get interesting. For our game, sticking to AA hulls, Winchester wads and a MEC (BTW I prefer a Sizemaster but still use my 600 Jr, the old version). Claybuster wads are commonly available, and they make substitute Winchester wads, they are not the same. I don't mind paying more for the real thing. Always check the size and pliability of your wads, I've had bad Winchesters as well. 

 

I get the feeling that you are a newbie, besides watching the Youtube stuff I'd suggest reading a few manuals as well.  I've attached a download of an older Lyman to get you started.Lyman Shotshell Handbook - 3rd Edition - 1984.pdf 

[Kidd Carson]

Hi Nickle and Welcome,

 

If I might add to this conversation. I use a Lee Load-all Shotgun shell loader. I do not trust the bushings to load my loads so I do that by scale and by hand. I use the Winchester Low recoil and Low noise shells as I used them during the matches. My loads that work well for me in a Stoeger Side by Side look like this:

 

Winchester AA shells with Winchester 209 primers. #7.5 shot, CB1100-12 wads which are replacements for the WAA12SL wads which are good for 7/8-1oz loads. The powder is Winchester Super Handicap.  I'm able to find all of these products locally at reasonable prices here on the Western side of Michigan.

 

After much experimentation I load 17.3/17.5 grains of powder and .96oz or roughly 420 grains of #7.5 shot.   1oz of lead shot = 437 grains.

 

The Lee Load-all allows de-priming and brass resizing. Then primer setting.

I pour 17.3/17.5 grains of powder into the shell and then set the wad down on the powder.

I then place a 20 gauge card in,on top of the wad base and before the lead shot.

Then load 420 grains of the #7.5 shot. Then crimp the top.

 

The load is easy on the shoulder and knocks the targets down easily. I fine the powder a little dirty, but easy to clean out after a match. Around my area Red Dot, Unique, Clays or Titewad is NOT available at all. I use Tightgroup or Red Dot or Unique for my .45 Colt loads (Rifle and Revolver). I have precious little left of these powders. About a half pound of Red Dot and Unique, with 1 pound of Tightgroup. So the little I do use on the .45 Colt will last at least one more year.

 

I hope this helped = Kidd Carson

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Some comments for the OP:

1. Cheddite 209 primers work well with most shotguns used for CAS.  They are all I load my CAS shotshells with, both smokeless and black powder.
2. There are many new shotgun powders available that may not be listed in your manual in the basement.  Powder distributors have both booklets listing current load data.  These are free at many sporting goods stores.  The same information is available on their websites.
3. Those red wads look like the ones I use for my black powder loads.  They leave ample volume for black powder but way too much volume for a light smokeless load.
4. Your "white" wads look yellowish - like they are old.  Are they brittle?  I got a bag of old plastic wads from the sixties that looked the same.  They were so brittle I had to toss them.

[Tall John]

In addition to the Lyman shot shell reloading manual.  Get the Advantages Shotshell reloading encyclopedia from 

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Advantages-Manual-12th-Ed/productinfo/00MADV/

 

best money you’ll spend….

[Nickle]

Just for the heck of it. I took some of my old cheap cases. Dumped 30 g by volume pyrodex in them.  20 grains  by volume, cream of wheat. Then one of my old wads and filled it with  BBs. Which was one ounce roughly of shot, then crimped with mec loader.

Basically I was just using up junk I already had. It shots good but  definitely mouse fart range. Patterns good at 10 yards.

I know I can't use bbs for competition.  I'm just using up old stuff I have.  Next time I'm going to load more powder. I bought federal factory target  stuff like u guys recommended for competition.  This is just cheap stuff I can practice with at home. 

In the summer I take my water truck and flood gopher holes.  The Shotgun with homemade loads will work good. 

Lead shot is stupid expensive up here. I went to the gun show in lethbridge and they wanted $100 for a bag of 7.5 lead shot!  I'm thinking I will just cast buckshot and load that up with pyrodex for practice.  

Hey I've accomplished something!  I found a use for pyrodex haha.

 

[J-BAR #18287]

On 3/10/2025 at 5:39 PM, Nickle said:

 

Hey I've accomplished something!  I found a use for pyrodex haha.

 

Pyrodex works dandy in shotshells!!

 

Just clean your gun thoroughly a few hours after you shoot it and enjoy making cheap noise and smoke!

[Lazy Eeyour]

Look around here.    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Shotshell-Reloading/departments/271/

You don’t need to purchase here, I don’t, but it will give you some ideas of what is available.  

Most people like Winchester AA or Remington STS hulls. As my wife’s uncle was a national trap shooter he gave me a 17 gallon tube of old W AA hulls. For trap and skeet 1 1/8 7.5 loads and for hunting 1 1/4 6 or 5 loads. Clay Busters for wads. Buy a manual check at manville engineering for downloads   https://www.mecoutdoors.com/shotshell-reloaders

[Dapper Dave]

When I bought my Stoeger for SASS, (first shotgun in a long time), my gunsmith buddy wanted to know when I was going to start reloading for it. I really didn't want to spring for the whole press/etc to load shotgun., so he suggested I do it without a press. Say what?

I started loading the Magtech full length brass shells. I press in the primer with a C clamp. Depriming is a brass punch into a wood block drilled for it. The only "tool" I use is the powder scale. Powder measured out of the Thunder Mug into the scale, then poured into the shell. Nitro card, tapped in solid with wooden dowel and plastic mallet, followed by two fiber wads, the scoop of shot, then overshot card hot glued in place. I have YET to test them against the official shotgun targets, but it looks to me, (total beginner in shotgun black powder loading), that 40gr of Olde Enysford 3F has plenty of pep to zing out 1 1/8oz of #8 shot. 

It is VERY slow, but since I consider reloading a fun pastime, I have no problem going slow. 
Somehow the pictures got out of order...the shooting photo is actually a load of 80gr to see how it would do with a "full power" load. Fun and quite the nice thump!

[Dapper Dave]

I know there are a bunch of people here with years more experience than me with these types of loads, and I'm probably doing three of five things wrong, but it's working so far. Since these pictures were taken, I got a better, flatter C clamp, and I am much more deft with the hot glue gun! Also, I mark the over shot card right in the middle with what load it has, JUST to be sure...cowboy loads are kept completely separate, of course. Also, no, no ignition problems with the Winchester Large Pistol Primers pressed in that way, and I press gently, not grind - I don't want the primer blowing my dowel out of the shell!

["Big Boston"]

Of all the topic that I've started, or responded to, those that involved shotguns and shotgun ammunition or reloading shotgun ammunition, they always seem to solicit very diverse responses. 

 

Not that I'm inclined to do otherwise, but what I'm about to say is from the heart and truly where I'm at now. Loading and shooting BP shotshells was an interest even before I began shooting Cowboy Action about 7 years ago. My first foray began with the purchase of a box of 12 gauge Magtech shells. This was initiated by the prepper crowd, and the trend for the prepper to own a single shot break action shotgun and having a way to make your own ammo. I tried the prepper way of reloading and I got discouraged trying to remove the old glue from inside the brass. I sold the brass shells for what I paid for them and moved on. 

 

After becoming a Cowboy, I experimenting again with BP in the shotgun, the first time with BP substitutes and this time with real BP. I've come to the conclusion that this is really not my thing. The biggest detractor being the cleanup. Not that I didn't take the project seriously, I ordered a few spray bottles off Amazon, bought a bottle of Murphy soap from Wally World, a box of Borax, an Arch punch to make my own wads, and likely a few more items that I'll likely find tucked away in some cupboard that I'll find later. 

 

The movie City Slicker is a bit of a classic, most of you may remember Billy Crystal asking Curly (Jack Palance) the meaning of life and his answer was "One". IOW find what makes you happy and do that. For me the message is not to spread yourself too thin, don't try and do everything. The present powder shortage, and the increased expense of shooting here in Canada has convinced me to put a hold on BP shotshell reloading. I made the commitment to load smokeless shotshells. I ordered a keg of Perfect Pattern powder, it should arrive soon. The order includes 3,000 WSP primers and a $30 LEE tool. With shipping it cost me $850, about twice as much since Covid and the horrible and expensive regulations and rules imposed by the present Canadian government. 

 

 

BB      

[Nickle]

11 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

Of all the topic that I've started, or responded to, those that involved shotguns and shotgun ammunition or reloading shotgun ammunition, they always seem to solicit very diverse responses. 

 

Not that I'm inclined to do otherwise, but what I'm about to say is from the heart and truly where I'm at now. Loading and shooting BP shotshells was an interest even before I began shooting Cowboy Action about 7 years ago. My first foray began with the purchase of a box of 12 gauge Magtech shells. This was initiated by the prepper crowd, and the trend for the prepper to own a single shot break action shotgun and having a way to make your own ammo. I tried the prepper way of reloading and I got discouraged trying to remove the old glue from inside the brass. I sold the brass shells for what I paid for them and moved on. 

 

After becoming a Cowboy, I experimenting again with BP in the shotgun, the first time with BP substitutes and this time with real BP. I've come to the conclusion that this is really not my thing. The biggest detractor being the cleanup. Not that I didn't take the project seriously, I ordered a few spray bottles off Amazon, bought a bottle of Murphy soap from Wally World, a box of Borax, an Arch punch to make my own wads, and likely a few more items that I'll likely find tucked away in some cupboard that I'll find later. 

 

The movie City Slicker is a bit of a classic, most of you may remember Billy Crystal asking Curly (Jack Palance) the meaning of life and his answer was "One". IOW find what makes you happy and do that. For me the message is not to spread yourself too thin, don't try and do everything. The present powder shortage, and the increased expense of shooting here in Canada has convinced me to put a hold on BP shotshell reloading. I made the commitment to load smokeless shotshells. I ordered a keg of Perfect Pattern powder, it should arrive soon. The order includes 3,000 WSP primers and a $30 LEE tool. With shipping it cost me $850, about twice as much since Covid and the horrible and expensive regulations and rules imposed by the present Canadian government. 

 

 

BB      

The only thing affordable in Canada as far as shooting sports goes are second hand shotgun reloading presses from people giving up on the sport. 

Good advice about doing what we enjoy. But with the constant new regulations and new laws and prohibitions every other month.  It's getting ridiculous.  Alberta don't feel like Alberta anymore and rest of country is even worse.  Urban sissies and weirdos taken over. Feels like past the tipping point.  

[Blackwater 53393]

I tried something new to me today.  A couple of my pards gave me a bunch of once fired 12ga 2 3/4” paper shells of different varieties. 
 

I loaded up fifty of ‘em this morning with a smokeless load I got from several of my fellow shooters.  I’ve used it in plastic shells with excellent results and I hope to get somewhere to try them out soon!

 

They certainly loaded up nicely!

 

Maybe I’ll do a batch in Black Powder next!

 

OH! YEAH!  Thanks to Springfield Slim and Kid Rich for the shells!!

 

 

["Big Boston"]

Paper shells do soften the recoil pulse. Back in the day the first plastics has a wound paper basewad, it basically did the same thing. In Britain they are common, as a move to eliminate any plastics from pastures, fields or hunting lands. Hunting lands are a heritage in Britain, and plastic hulls and wads are viewed as being undesirable, harmful to any grazing animal that can eat it. 

 

When used with black powder, it develops burnt through pin holes. Their life with smokeless is short as well. It seems to me that they were good for the original load and then for one reload. Back in the day they were cheap enough and they were the only game other than all brass. After the reload the risk of the base wad separating and remaining in the barrel was a concern. I've reloaded 1F hulls twice and had no issues. 

 

Here's the real kicker, in my youth paper shells were all we had, and the smell of a freshly ejected paper shell is somewhat euphoric. 

 

I have about 50 or so new paper hulls stashed away, one day I'll have to load some for a meet. 

 

BB

[Eyesa Horg]

Fine job, those came out nice.👍

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I remember 20 years ago reading about paper hulls being coated with wax (to waterproof them, I guess) and when firing several with BP the gun would get hot and they would stick.  I don't know if they still have wax on them but the few I've seen lately didn't appear to.

["Big Boston"]

 

My memory got jogged. I loaded these a long time ago. I don't recall the load exactly but they have a really high base wad. They use a AA red wad with 1 - 1 1/8 oz of shot. I always liked shooting them but sourcing 1F hulls was a challenge. With the high base wad they would likely have been good for BP cowboy loads. Cowboys use a ST of shotgun ammo and for the most part if a manufacturer would only need to have one load. 

 

Winchester Feather Lites are only sporadically available and the cost is up there. 

 

BB