Need help with '73 issue

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

My '73 recently started acting up (at LandRun, of course).  I've been shooting this very reliable rifle since '08 and have put about 50k rounds through it (same bullet, length ect. as I'm having trouble with now).  Seems like my carrier is not reliably dropping all the way when I close it. Have new Lever and lifter springs coming.   Compared my 4th Gen. C&I lever and lifter to another one I have and they are identical.  Noticed the cartridges in the carrier are sitting an a pretty extreme angle and catching on rear of frame(See attached pic)  Carrier shows very little wear and I tried 2 other carriers(one brass and one Aluminum).  They didn't help.  Thought maybe it was the loading gate bent, even though it doesn't appear to be, so I switched the side plate out with one from another '73.  Same problem.

 

Any ideas?  Thanks,

Possum

73.jfif

Can't seem to get pic to show here.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Make sure the carrier spring is tight (screw underneath on loading gate side of rifle).  If it is, make sure the little bent tab at the end is riding properly on the lifter cam.  There was a thread about that recently.  That carrier spring is what holds the carrier all the way up after the lifter lifts it, and helps the carrier to drop when the lever is closed.  Most short stroke kits have a "positive slam down" feature that should also help the carrier drop.  If it just started happening that spring could have weakened since then or moved off the cam from cleaning, etc.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Abilene, Thank you.  I believe the spring may be weak and have a new one supposed to be here Monday.  Any ideas on the round being crooked in the carrier?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I'm not sure why the round would  be so crooked if it didn't do it before.  I think mine got more crooked when I installed a Shotgun Boogie gate, so I use a pusher through the gate after loading to get it into better position.

[G W Wade]

You satd the round sat crooked , I could not open the photo.   I worked on a friends rifle and found the mortise across from the loading gate lip was peened to the rear so there was no support on the left side.     No idea how to fix but it maybe an idea ..........GW

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

The picture opens for me if I right click it, then click on "Open Image in New Tab"

[G W Wade]

Opened this time.  First 2 try's says photo withdrawn or deleted.   Your cartridge is way more extreme that the one I saw      GW

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I'd like to see pictures of your carrier.

 

Phantom

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

6 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

My '73 recently started acting up (at LandRun, of course).  I've been shooting this very reliable rifle since '08 and have put about 50k rounds through it (same bullet, length ect. as I'm having trouble with now).  Seems like my carrier is not reliably dropping all the way when I close it. Have new Lever and lifter springs coming.   Compared my 4th Gen. C&I lever and lifter to another one I have and they are identical.  Noticed the cartridges in the carrier are sitting an a pretty extreme angle and catching on rear of frame(See attached pic)  Carrier shows very little wear and I tried 2 other carriers(one brass and one Aluminum).  They didn't help.  Thought maybe it was the loading gate bent, even though it doesn't appear to be, so I switched the side plate out with one from another '73.  Same problem.

 

Any ideas?  Thanks,

Possum

73.jfif 98.6 kB · 60 downloads

Can't seem to get pic to show here.

The image file format (.jfif) is ancient and difficult to view. Try re-saving it as a .jpg file and repost. 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Worked when saved as jpeg.  Thanks for that info.  I'll take some pics of my carrier.

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

That is extreme, it looks to be carrier or loading gate related, but you said you switched those out.

[Hawkeye Kid]

Looks like 38s (that are to short) in a large caliber carrier.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye Kid said:

Looks like 38s (that are to short) in a large caliber carrier.

Those rounds are definitely not too short.  As for the carrier, I wondered about that.  The OP did not mention caliber.  That IS a large caliber carrier, but the OP also said he changed the carrier, and I'm also assuming that that round is a .44 or .45.

 

Okay, edit time: I see the barrel says it is a .357, so yeah, wrong carrier!

Edited October 20, 2024 by Abilene, SASS # 27489

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Another post where a vital piece of information is missing.  Definitely the wrong carrier.  So how did it mysteriously get into the wrong gun?  Based on the information provided my guess is the OP cleaned the gun just before Land Run and installed the wrong carrier.  This would also explain why the carrier is not fully dropping.  It is hanging up on the extreme sideways round.

 

Edited October 20, 2024 by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

20 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Another post where a vital piece of information is missing.  Definitely the wrong carrier.  So how did it mysteriously get into the wrong gun?  Based on the information provided my guess is the OP cleaned the gun just before Land Run and installed the wrong carrier.  This would also explain why the carrier is not fully dropping.  It is hanging up on the extreme sideways round.

Absolutely not a large caliber carrier.  This is the carrier that's been in this rifle since I bought it in '08 and the only large caliber carrier I own is installed in my 45 '73.  I took pictures of my carrier removed from rifle and comparing the two but won't be able to post them until I get back home from work.

 

I DO appreciate everyone's efforts to help me with this issue.

 

Possum

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Well, that's strange!  Looks EXACTLY like the large size from the top.  I look forward to the picture.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

+1 to Abilene.  The carrier in the photo does not look like a small carrier.  Optical illusion?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Skinner make some mearurements of your carrier.  The two dimensions that will tell you for sure what you have are shown in the photos.  Your dimensons should be close to those shown.  Your photo looks nothing like this carrier.  The number in the second photo is not clear.  It is .455".

 

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

18 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Skinner make some mearurements of your carrier.  The two dimensions that will tell you for sure what you have are shown in the photos.  Your dimensons should be close to those shown.  Your photo looks nothing like this carrier.  The number in the second photo is not clear.  It is .455".

 

 

 

Larsen, your measurements are at two different locations on the two carriers.  Regardless, is that large carrier measurement accurate?  My calipers are elsewhere right now, but that measurement on my large carrier is a little over 0.5"  Is yours aftermarket, or perhaps the dimensions changed over time?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

BOTH photos are of the small caliber carrier.  One measurement is the top rails and the second is the hole the cartridge rides in.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

36 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

BOTH photos are of the small caliber carrier.  One measurement is the top rails and the second is the hole the cartridge rides in.

Gotcha!  Thought you were showing two different sizes.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

OK.  Measured my old aluminum carrier.  It's .291" as measured on top and .461" measured from end (Larson's two pics respectively).

And the brass carrier I have measures .290" & .450".

 

I've included a few more pictures.  The first two are comparing brass carrier and my aluminum carrier.

 

My .45 carrier and my old brass carrier

 

Round hung up using brass carrier.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Well, I guess it IS an optical illusion, because that carrier doesn't look the same to me as the the one first posted.  As for the hang-up from the crooked round, there is a known issue with Uberti failing to mill a bevel into the frame at the rear of the mortice (frame opening) for the carrier, and the rim of the last round loaded catches under that ledge when at an angle.  But if yours had that issue I would have thought it would have surfaced well before now, unless your rounds just always sat straight on the carrier before.  If that is the issue, you need to file that bevel into the frame.  Pioneer Gun Works had an explanation of this on their website, although I don't know if he has a picture.  But even that bevel might not help with a round as angled as in the first picture, I don't know.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Abilene, the frame is beveled there.

 

Measuring the other aluminum carrier that I borrowed I found it is a large carrier.  That may be the one I had in when I took the first picture I posted.  However, my old (38) carrier does the exact same thing.

 

The brass carrier seems to go down more positively, so I may leave it in.  But the rim of the rounds still catch on frame.  While I tried a different loading gate, I think I’ll order a new loading gate and try that.  I just can’t imagine what else it could be.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

If the carrier spring is weak, the brass carrier might drop further simply because it is heavier.  

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

17 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

If the carrier spring is weak, the brass carrier might drop further simply because it is heavier.  

  I’ve already got a replacement spring ordered.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Finally got the rifle all put together yesterday and shot a match today.  Ran flawlessly!  Had to be the loading gate even though a SB '66 style gate didn't fix it, a regular '73 loading gate did.

 

Thank you all for your information and assistance.

Possum

[El Sobrante Kid]

31 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Finally got the rifle all put together yesterday and shot a match today.  Ran flawlessly!  Had to be the loading gate even though a SB '66 style gate didn't fix it, a regular '73 loading gate did.

 

Thank you all for your information and assistance.

Possum

 

Did you have to modify the new '73 loading gate in any way, or did you just install a new one? Did you compare the old and the new loading gate(s) to see what the differences were? Thx

[Sedalia Dave]

Did you reinforce the tab on the back of loading gate with a little JB Weld?

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

10 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

 

Did you have to modify the new '73 loading gate in any way, or did you just install a new one? Did you compare the old and the new loading gate(s) to see what the differences were? Thx

No.  I (stupidly) tried to bend the tab out on the old one and it snapped off, so I threw it away before I got the new one.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Did you reinforce the tab on the back of loading gate with a little JB Weld?

No, but the old one lasted for about 50,000 rounds and I'll know what it is next time.  Still... might do that in the future.