Rover SASS 28073L Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) Good afternoon, 2 ques;tions on .44-40 cast bullets: 1. Sources for 200gr. FNRP lubed ? coated? 2. My Rugers have .429 cylinder and barrels: Can I shoot..427 sized bullets lubed or coated without any leading problems? or should I stay with .429 sized bullets lubed or coated? if available or .430 bullets that I size down to .429? Can coated .430 bullets be sized to .429? Thank you for any and all advice Edited April 24 by Rover SASS 28073L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacherman Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Bigger is better in this case with Rugers and a .429" barrel. Check the cylinder throats as they usually run small and will resize and create a smaller diameter bullet before it enters the barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 PLUS ONE for Precherman And What is your propellant?? If you're shooting Black Powder, you'll need a BP compatible lube and coated isn't it. Smokeless call for crayon type lube and coated "may" work. APP doesn't require any form of lube. Rugers are VERY prone to undersize cylinder throats. With lead bullets, and a 429 Bore, Optimally you are better off with .430 bullets. Performance with .427 bullets will be less than optimum. .427 will also be prone to leading. Resizing already coated bullets is sketchy. I'd strongly suggest checking your throat dimensions and reaming to .430 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I offer .427, .428 and .430 bullets. Traditional lubed (wax for smokeless or APP) and Hi-Tek polymer coated (good for smokeless or APP). Big hugs! Scarlett I don’t want to violate wire rules. Maybe @Colorado Coffinmaker will vouch for me 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 5 hours ago, Rover SASS 28073L said: Good afternoon, 2 ques;tions on .44-40 cast bullets: 1. Sources for 200gr. FNRP lubed ? See Scarlett's answer. coated? See Scarlett's answer. 2. My Rugers have .429 cylinder and barrels: Can I shoot..427 sized bullets lubed or coated without any leading problems? Maybe. Whole books have been written with detailed explanations on the numerous reasons and exceptions thereto. or should I stay with .429 sized bullets lubed or coated? if available Usually acceptable. But if they'll chamber and your throats are correct, .001-.002 over groove diameter is optimal. or .430 bullets that I size down to .429? Yes. Can coated .430 bullets be sized to .429? Yes. Thank you for any and all advice See Preacherman & CC's answers for more detailed discussion. BTW, that was 6 questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) Absulamumundo and you betcha. Scarlett be a most excellent source for quality bullets and a fine propellant APP!! Ask for them by NAME!! "Bullets by Scarlett" you betcha Edited April 25 by Colorado Coffinmaker 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Big Tree Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Rover, The throats on my Rugers are .430 and the barrels are .429. The same goes for for my rifle. I use .430 coated .44 Magnum bullets in both revolvers and rifles. Your rifle being of older design (The firing pin extension on the older models was retained w/ a cross pin) may have a .427 bore. New Old 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Jim Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) I have a Uberti rifle with .427 bore and Ruger's with .429. The throats of the Ruger cylinders have been opened to .431. I shoot the Marv Duchman big lube bullets sized to .429 with no problems in both rifle and pistols. Edited April 25 by Jackass Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Bullets can be sized down about as far as you want to go. I have sized .457 to .452, just takes a little more effort. 3 hours ago, Ya Big Tree said: Rover, The throats on my Rugers are .430 and the barrels are .429. The same goes for for my rifle. I use .430 coated .44 Magnum bullets in both revolvers and rifles. Your rifle being of older design (The firing pin extension on the older models was retained w/ a cross pin) may have a .427 bore. New Old Unless ya go one of them that's older than that with a larger diameter fp extension. kR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 A bit of a confusing question, IMHO. Here are my $0.02 worth of opinion. I have a few 44-40s, none are 427 so I use a 429 bullet. As a general rule, the necks of most 44-40 chambers will only accommodate bullets up to and including 429. Just for reliability and ease of reloading with regular tools and components, if you don't have any 427 guns, load with 429 bullets. A coated bullet will tolerate being undersize, by a wee bit. How I like to view the bullet size theory of operation is to look at the cross sectional area of the bullet and how it compares to the cross sectional area of the hole in the barrel. IMHO and analyzing my own experience, I believe this concept has merit. It takes into considerations of the bore size, the number and depth of the groove (groove diameter) and gives you a minimum usable diameter. This does apply to cowboy loads which, for the most part, are around typical black powder pressures and velocities lower than cast bullet hunting or non cowboy loads. I'll give an example: The SAAMI spec for minimum bore and groove area for a 44-40 is 0.1426 sq. in. and a 0.4261 diameter bullet has that same area. Now you have to take into account that a Ruger 44-40 likely is using a deep groove barrel with a smaller bore than a spec 44-40 barrel. The area for a min spec 44 Mag is less at 0.1405 sq. in. The area of a 0.429 bullet is 0.1445 sq. in. There are more factors that come into play, but theoretically speaking, if the bullet were fluid enough it would fill or be reshaped to fill the bore groove area if the bullet area were equal to the barrels bore and groove area. But the bullet is not fluid enough, as most cowboy bullets are in and around about a BHN of 14. Powder coated bullets have a surface hardness of about 16 to 18 BHN. The coating increases the bullets ability to resist skidding. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a coated bullet is not nearly as fussy as a sized and lubed bullet. it will tolerate what a fair bit of abuse. In my firearms, of which all have at least a 429 groove diameter, the soft lead 427 dia Winchester 225 ammo fails. 429 diameter harder cast bullets are OK. Therefore I'd say that a 429 diameter coated bullet should work well, and in addition I'd recommend sizing the bullets to ensure uniformity. I just use a LEE bullet sizer, either type, and haven't noticed any issues. Makes the bullets cylindrical and the shanks smooth. BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bone Johnson Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Rover, generally speaking on revolvers you size to the cylinder throat, assuming the throat is larger than the groove diameter. If reversed that is a different story for a different thread. Your Ruger's should be fine with .429. Rifles should have the largest diameter that will RELIBLY chamber in a fouled gun, some 44-40 will chamber .430 when clean but not after a couple stages. In this case drop down to .429. Or just start with 429 in the beginning unless there is a problem. Sizing any lubed bullet down 2/1000 is no problem. Shooting undersize bullets with lube is a leading issue looking for a place to happen. Soft bullets like ours should be at least groove diameter or larger when they leave the cylinder. Shooting undersized coated should not lead unless the coating is broken. Accuracy may suffer, but probably not enough to matter at average SASS distance. Sources? outlawbullets.com I can't speak to coated bullets from personal experience but sizing down a 1000 or two shouldn't be a problem either. T Bone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Skinner Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) I shoot 428 coated bullets in Pietta GW II pistols with 429 bores and a Uberti 73 rifle with a 429 bore. No leading problems and decent accuracy, good enough for SASS competition. If you run 430 bullets you’ll need a flaring die for 44 Spl or a 44 mag. If you use a 44-40 die you’ll get a bulged case neck and have trouble chambering. My rifle is from 2001 and has a 429 bore but a 427 chamber and won’t work with 430 bullets because it causes drag when chambering and causes you to slow down shooting. Edited April 26 by Bull Skinner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I use uncoated 165 grainers from Badman Bullets, sized to .427" because of ONE Uberti 1873 rifle that gets a little snug with anything bigger than .4285". At the "point blank" distances we shoot, .427's haven't been a problem in any of my other .44-40's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 On 4/25/2024 at 4:00 PM, T Bone Johnson said: outlawbullets.com Waimea, a wonderful friend and cowboy has retired. He is enjoying traveling in Europe and spending time in France, where he has bought a cottage. I wanted to be mad at him and his wife - but they’re too sweet. Hugs! Scarlett 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bone Johnson Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 22 hours ago, Scarlett said: Waimea, a wonderful friend and cowboy has retired. He is enjoying traveling in Europe and spending time in France, where he has bought a cottage. I wanted to be mad at him and his wife - but they’re too sweet. Hugs! Scarlett Yes we agree, Waimea was most gracious and helpful when he sold Outlaw Bullets to us. Thanks to his support Outlaw Bullets is alive and well in Georgia. T Bone Johnson 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 9 hours ago, T Bone Johnson said: Yes we agree, Waimea was most gracious and helpful when he sold Outlaw Bullets to us. Thanks to his support Outlaw Bullets is alive and well in Georgia. T Bone Johnson I didn’t realize it was YOU who bought it! Welcome to the hardest work you’ll ever do for the best people in the whole entire world! Big hugs! Scarlett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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