Oak Ridge Regulator Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 If that’s true that she actually had live ammo on the set and actually loaded it into the gun then it’s beyond incompetent it’s murder at that point, she is a “trained” professional and that’s not a mistake, the problem is I find it interesting that a trained armorer can’t tell the difference between a live and dummy round “ speaking as a US Army small arms repairman who had handled thousands “ they don’t feel the same and usually look different. I guess I just smell a rat, things don’t add up somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 46 minutes ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said: Gutierrez-Reed bought ammo that matched what was in the gun and she is the one that loaded the gun. There is no one else to look for. And she did it because she was criminally incompetent at her job, something The Producer had been made aware of and chose to do nothing about How bout Hall whom handed him the gun and insured him it was cold. Who brought the live ammo on set?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 13 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: How bout Hall whom handed him the gun and insured him it was cold. Who brought the live ammo on set?? As I understand it, Gutierrez-Reed purchased and the brought the ammo on set, she loaded the gun and handed it to Hall telling him it was cold or loaded with blanks or whatever. I don't recall a single person involved that has suggested any other chain of events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 4 minutes ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said: As I understand it, Gutierrez-Reed purchased and the brought the ammo on set, she loaded the gun and handed it to Hall telling him it was cold or loaded with blanks or whatever. I don't recall a single person involved that has suggested any other chain of events ‘Rust’ Shooting: Gun That Killed Halyna Hutchins Was Used That Morning for Live-Ammo Target Practice https://www.thewrap.com/halyna-hutchins-live-ammo-target-practice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 8 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: ‘Rust’ Shooting: Gun That Killed Halyna Hutchins Was Used That Morning for Live-Ammo Target Practice https://www.thewrap.com/halyna-hutchins-live-ammo-target-practice/ Yeah, and after that the gun went to her, she 'made it ready' for the scene per the shot list, then gave it to Hall who took it to Baldwin. Even if the gun was used for live shooting (related to the production or not) at any point in time, it was Gutierrez-Reed's responsibility to make sure it was safe before it went on set I'm confused, do you think someone intentionally put live rounds in there so the cinematographer would be shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said: she is a “trained” professional Really? I watched some of the trial and testimony and do not know how anyone can reach that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 17 minutes ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said: Yeah, and after that the gun went to her, she 'made it ready' for the scene per the shot list, then gave it to Hall who took it to Baldwin. Even if the gun was used for live shooting (related to the production or not) at any point in time, it was Gutierrez-Reed's responsibility to make sure it was safe before it went on set I'm confused, do you think someone intentionally put live rounds in there so the cinematographer would be shot? I don’t think it was intentional but it sure was careless as heck! I don’t think she took her job seriously. Pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 4/15/2024 at 12:14 PM, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said: more likely she is the sacrifice , to save his butt CB Sacrifice nothing .... As set Armorer, responsibility for the weapons was always on her shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 The part of the trial dealing with the live ammo on set was interesting. HSM supplied the blank ammo and dummy rounds and was sued claiming they inadvertantly put live rounds in the box. The evidence was HSM only uses RNFP bullets in their .45 Colt ammo and used powder that is only available to commercial loaders. The live ammo was loaded with semi-wadcutter bullets and Trailboss powder. The case against HSM was dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 3 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: The part of the trial dealing with the live ammo on set was interesting. HSM supplied the blank ammo and dummy rounds and was sued claiming they inadvertantly put live rounds in the box. The evidence was HSM only uses RNFP bullets in their .45 Colt ammo and used powder that is only available to commercial loaders. The live ammo was loaded with semi-wadcutter bullets and Trailboss powder. The case against HSM was dismissed. Where did you see the trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 There are videos on YouTube put out by a judicial watch organization. Here is day 4. It is LONG so I just did a screen shot of one of the exhibits showing the semi-wadcutter and trailboss powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 56 minutes ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said: Yeah, and after that the gun went to her, she 'made it ready' for the scene per the shot list, then gave it to Hall who took it to Baldwin. Even if the gun was used for live shooting (related to the production or not) at any point in time, it was Gutierrez-Reed's responsibility to make sure it was safe before it went on set I'm confused, do you think someone intentionally put live rounds in there so the cinematographer would be shot? Not at all. Just bringing it up as I remember it. She absolutely is responsible. especially as she shouldn't have let anybody access the gun not directly involved with the scene. I would have thought that all guns on the set would be secured when not involved in a scene, and that NOBODY except the Armorer could access them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 28 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: Not at all. Just bringing it up as I remember it. She absolutely is responsible. especially as she shouldn't have let anybody access the gun not directly involved with the scene. I would have thought that all guns on the set would be secured when not involved in a scene, and that NOBODY except the Armorer could access them. That would be the safe way to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Why would there be bullets of any style in blanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Why would there be bullets of any style in blanks? Ya know, that’s a darn good question !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 5 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Why would there be bullets of any style in blanks? There wouldn't be. They were trying to say that HSM shipped live ammo with blanks. That bullet configuration shows that they didn't because HSM didn't use that bullet or powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 6 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Ya know, that’s a darn good question !! That question has been on my mind since the incident. Even a non-armorer could tell the difference between a blank and a round with a bullet. That's what prompts my curiosity! When she said she shook them, I thought"couldn't you feel the difference in weight between a blank and a loaded round, not to mention,seeing a bullet. But I've only slept at Holiday Inn Express a few times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 8 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: There wouldn't be. They were trying to say that HSM shipped live ammo with blanks. That bullet configuration shows that they didn't because HSM didn't use that bullet or powder. What has Hannah said about that! Seems even if laxadaisacle, you would instantly notice a live round by comparison to a blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 20 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Why would there be bullets of any style in blanks? There would not be bullets in blanks. However, I am sure most of us have seen scenes where the muzzle is pointed at the camera and you can see dummy bullets in the cylinder. I am not going to go back and rewatch hundreds of hours of testimony but my recollection is that there were dummy rounds and these had no primers and had holes drilled in the brass case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 7 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: That question has been on my mind since the incident. Even a non-armorer could tell the difference between a blank and a round with a bullet. That's what prompts my curiosity! When she said she shook them, I thought"couldn't you feel the difference in weight between a blank and a loaded round, not to mention,seeing a bullet. But I've only slept at Holiday Inn Express a few times! My understanding is that they put a BB or piece of shot in the dummy cartridge. To make sure that it's a dummy round and not a live round, they shake it like a spray paint can. Seems to me like the method of drilling a hole in the brass would be a better, more visible solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 minute ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: There would not be bullets in blanks. However, I am sure most of us have seen scenes where the muzzle is pointed at the camera and you can see dummy bullets in the cylinder. Excellent point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 It has been a long time but my recollection of Brandon Lee's death is that there was a scene where the gun was shown with bullets. They removed the dummies and the bullet from one stayed in the cylinder throat and the blank was loaded behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 10 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: It has been a long time but my recollection of Brandon Lee's death is that there was a scene where the gun was shown with bullets. They removed the dummies and the bullet from one stayed in the cylinder throat and the blank was loaded behind it. A dummy bullet was a made from a factory .44 Mag round that they had pulled the bullet, emptied the powder and loaded the bullet back into the brass that still contained a live primer. The revolver was then used in a scene, "squib" round was shot which lodged the bullet in barrel. The next scene the gun was used in had regular blanks in it. Blank was shot and it had enough energy to propel the bullet with sufficient force at close range to strike Lee in the gut creating severe internal bleeding and causing his death. I remember that because a lot of people were talking about Bruce Lee's death being a murder and that the same people that "murdered" Bruce Lee, had also killed his son Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 28 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: It has been a long time but my recollection of Brandon Lee's death is that there was a scene where the gun was shown with bullets. They removed the dummies and the bullet from one stayed in the cylinder throat and the blank was loaded behind it. As I recall it was a regular blank, but the pistol was up against his head so the cardboard wad was still lethal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 minutes ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said: As I recall it was a regular blank, but the pistol was up against his head so the cardboard wad as still lethal That was a different guy, John Eric Hexum although the spelling could be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Because I was curious, I checked to see if any criminal charges were ever filed in the death of Brandon Lee. The answer is no, there weren't because in North Carolina where the movie was being filmed, the person being charge with criminal negligence has to have performed a "willful and wanton" act of negligence. Evidently, prosecutors did not think that anyone was "willful and wanton". A lawsuit was filed by the family of Lee and settled for an undisclosed sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 50 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: willful and wanton" act of negligence Even AB likely wasn't willful and wanton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Just now, Eyesa Horg said: Even AB likely wasn't willful and wanton. I don't know if involuntary manslaughter was an option for Lee's death in North Carolina. It must be in New Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 5 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: that's not how Hollywierd works. Even though he IS responsible as the Producer, I'll still bet he gets nothing more than Probation, if that. Same judge is presiding over his case. Same charge as against the armorer. If the jury finds him guilty (hardly a forgone conclusion) I expect she would give him the same sentence. That would be my bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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