Make do Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 I have begun to notice with my Stoeger Shotgun that it had some play at the breach. The gun fires fine and doesn't pop open after firing. But I was wondering what affects the play at the breach, how much play is too much and can it be measured with a feeler gauge at the breach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Howdy Make, A couple of things. First, when you wiggle the barrels is the play up and down or side to side or both. If it's mostly up and down, you make be able to have it tightened by having a good smith beat on the locking lug. If it's side to side or both, take a hard look at the locking lug on the barrel. I heard that some Stoegers can develop a crack in the lug. I don't know what the fix for that is, but I would sideline the gun if you see a crack there until a smith can look at it. I'm sure some of our more experienced posters here may have more (better?) advise. Rev. Chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) Play (if any) between the barrel breech and the vertical face of the action (where firing pins are located) is the slop which can make a gun quit firing. That play adds to head space, and eventually the firing pins cannot hit the primers enough to fire the shells. This is due to wear between the hinge at the front of the receiver, and the socket for the hinge in the barrel underlug.. Usually fixed by fitting an oversize hinge pin (they are all replaceable). This loosening of the hinge also sometimes shows up as a side-to-side flop of the barrels. Play in the lock down of the barrels - yes, that's mainly from the sliding action lock no longer snugly fitting the slots in the underbarrel lugs. Often fixed by either replacing the sliding lock bar or tightening the lug gap(s) in the underbarrel lug(s). Too much play here means recoil can cause the action to unlock without the top lever being worked. Lots of old and cheaply made guns develop play in the action. Some need to be fixed to prevent failures. good luck, GJ Edited March 23 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Plus 1 for Marauder, I saw this video a while ago (couldn't remember where) and used what I learned to tighten up an older Belgian double hammer gun that was my first CAS sxs. It worked well. Just take it easy and try a little at a time. Rev. Chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I've checked shotguns being on face or how much off face by using a primed hull and watching how far the primer backs out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make do Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 But is there a way to measure off face and determine if it is too much (or getting there)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend P. Babcock Chase Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Howdy Fellers, (highjacking alert) Not sure if it applies here, but I have often wondered about some of the "flickered" SXS chambers that are so funneled that the step in the chamber for the shell's rim seems to have disappeared. Could overdoing the funneling create something akin to an "off the face" condition? Rev. Chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make do Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 As a side note the play is up and down. Does that mean hinge pin or locking lug problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Over-funneling can be an issue. Up and Down play is also an issue of the locking system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 20 minutes ago, Make do said: the play is up and down. Mostly locking lug / sliding lock bar fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) If the rim cut in the chamber has been ground out completely, and even worse, if the extractors have the same coning done, yes, the gun has lost it's headspace location! Shotguns headspace on the front surface of the shell rim being against the ledge in the chamber. Shells vary a little in outside rim diameter, and if the headspace ledge is cut out into a tapered cone, they try to stop when the OD of the rim reaches a tight spot in the tapered wall. So each hull, each brand, tries to stop at a different distance from the firing pins. And at some point, you get failures of the firing pins to set off primers! Leave the extractor alone when "coning" the breech. Leave at least some of the headspace ledge in the barrel - I never cut out more than half of the ledge depth. good luck, GJ Edited March 22 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Not to be Snarky (yes I am). Fixing a Stoeger is like riding a Merry-Go-Round. It won't be long and yule be doing it all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Make do said: As a side note the play is up and down. Does that mean hinge pin or locking lug problems? Lugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make do Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 The gun is box stock - only changes I have made are adjusting the safety so it doesn't come on when opened and I put in a lever spring that is lighter. What should I look for on the lugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/22/2024 at 11:13 AM, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Not to be Snarky (yes I am). Fixing a Stoeger is like riding a Merry-Go-Round. It won't be long and yule be doing it all over again. But many folks really enjoy the Merry-Go_Round, so, think of the fun they have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Well, you can't see the sliding lock fitting into the lugs when action is closed. You could disassemble the receiver enough to get the sliding lock block out, then push block in by hand. But that is lots of work. I'd smoke or marker color the lug engagement surfaces, then open and close the action several times. You should see drag marks where the bar touches the lugs. Spots where the lugs DO NOT rub off their color are not making contact. Gentle tapping on the lug to close up the lugs' slots can usually get the lockup tighter. But, if the action is not auto-opening when you fire it, I'd leave it alone. A little up and down play in the action won't hurt much of anything good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall John Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 If you don’t find a problem with your locking lug, then check part #348 “latch lock”. Pic 1 shows how it fits into the locking lug. Pic 2 is an exploded view of the parts list. Pic 3 shows the large variance between different latch locks made by Stoeger, you may just need to buy a replacement from Numrich. Pic 5 is the underside of the “latch lock” look for excessive wear here. i see that you say this is stock out of the box? Did you buy new or used? Only asking ‘cause if used a lot of folks will lighten up the lever spring. Which is the spring you see in Pic 4. Lightening this spring will take pressure off of part #348 “latch lock” allowing some slop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make do Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 (edited) Thanks for all the help. I did buy the gun new maybe 30 years ago but put it away until about 4 years ago. I also did put in a lighter lever spring recently, and it does seem to have a tiny bit more give (hard to tell). At the breech I can put in a 3mm feeler gauge. Edited March 24 by Make do addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 16 minutes ago, Make do said: can put in a 3mm feeler gauge. That seems extreme to me! That's over a tenth of an inch! Seems the firing pin could miss the primer with that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make do Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 Bad memory .356 mm gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Hmmm, 14 thousandths of slack between which ever lug is tightest and the locking bar. Not real bad. Would not take much tapping of the lug(s) to bring that back down to about 0.005" My Baikal will close nicely with a 0.008" feeler gauge blade placed on the water table right where the standing breech of the action meets the watertable. Feels like I still have a lot of life in that gun. Converting that, that is 0.20 mm. good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Put the factory lever spring back in, see if that stops the slop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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