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1873 Last Round Loaded Question


Red Oak

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On my 1873 I'm noticing the last round loaded (10th) sits at an angle in the carrier.  When I try to woirk the lever it noticably hangs enough I have to wiggle/work the lever a bit to get that round up to load into the chanber.  I've been using my Palo Verde screw knife to straighten, (basically just push the base of the cartdrige over to align it) it out at the loading table.  Is this a common problem?  The rifle is a 357/38 Uberti 1873 with aboiut 1000 rounds through it and no SS kit.  Ammo is loaded to 1.5 with a TC bullet and I've got a mag tube insert installed.  All subsequent rounds seem to align perfectlhy.

Thank you.

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19 minutes ago, Red Oak said:

On my 1873 I'm noticing the last round loaded (10th) sits at an angle in the carrier.  When I try to woirk the lever it noticably hangs enough I have to wiggle/work the lever a bit to get that round up to load into the chanber.  I've been using my Palo Verde screw knife to straighten, (basically just push the base of the cartdrige over to align it) it out at the loading table.  Is this a common problem?  The rifle is a 357/38 Uberti 1873 with aboiut 1000 rounds through it and no SS kit.  Ammo is loaded to 1.5 with a TC bullet and I've got a mag tube insert installed.  All subsequent rounds seem to align perfectlhy.

Thank you.

Yes, it's common.

 

But the OAL is probably a bit short since the next round in the mag tube is sitting too far into the carrier...hence the slight hang up.

 

Phantom

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What Phantom said.  Some rifles are more sensitive to that than others.  My rifle and my son's rifle will eat just about anything.  My wife's rifle on the other hand has more selective taste when it comes to COAL.  To keep everyone happy I load for her rifle's preference and all is good.

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You probably already know this, but on every shot (other than the last), the "next round" is basically pushed back into the tube...that's why if the "next round" is sitting too far into the carrier it will bind...particularly difficult to cycle when the mag is full since there is max spring tension.

 

Phantom

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Make a short pusher & push the last round on in & let it come back.That should let it set straight.

                                                                                                                                                                                       Largo

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44 minutes ago, Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 said:

I had a similar problem with my rifle. I got a lot of info from the wire.  Do a search for this thread:  HAVING TROUBLE WITH A 44-40 1873 LOCKING UP ON FIRST ROUND

 

Chancy

The frame of the rifle behind the lifter is designed to straighten the last round loaded as it is lifted. Cleaning up the burrs and sharp edges in this area will fix it. I've done this on several rifles with total success.

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Howdy Red,

 

I have a 73 with the same problem, I've been told there is a cut in the Frame or Lifter (don't remember which) the needs some minor dressing. I haven't dealt with it yet, but I found that after I put in the tenth round, I push the base of the shell toward the center of the receiver so that it is sitting straight. The rifle then feeds the 10th (now the first to feed) smoothly. 

 

Rev. Chase

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19 minutes ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Red,

 

I have a 73 with the same problem, I've been told there is a cut in the Frame or Lifter (don't remember which) the needs some minor dressing. I haven't dealt with it yet, but I found that after I put in the tenth round, I push the base of the shell toward the center of the receiver so that it is sitting straight. The rifle then feeds the 10th (now the first to feed) smoothly. 

 

Rev. Chase

It's the frame. While your solution is fine for the 10 you load at the loading table, it's a disaster reloading on the clock.

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Also make sure that your loading gate isn't being held partially open by the force of that last round.  If it is, this can also cause problems with cycling that first round into the chamber because the carrier hangs up on the gate.

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It's a very common problem when the Uberti factory does not machine and deburr the mortise (rectangular window cut) in the frame just behind the loading gate.  Badly cut mortise edges hold the rim of the last round inserted into the magazine at an angle, with the rim kicked out toward the loading gate  (that "last" loaded round does not really get into the magazine, it remains in the carrier until the action is cycled after loading)    With that round sitting angled inside the carrier with it's rim caught in the mortise cut in the frame, the carrier is locked so that it cannot rise when you work the action.  Thus, the gun is jammed.  Sometimes jiggling the lever causes the round to slide forward into straight line alignment within  the carrier block.   Sometimes pressure from the other 9 rounds in the mag tube is so great, jiggling alone will not push the round straight.

 

A finger tip or a wood dowel inserted into the loading gate CAN be used to give the base of the round a nudge forward and left (away from the loading gate) after you insert the last round.  Usually it will stay straight in the carrier once pushed forward slightly and straightened.  Sometimes, it won't - just depends upon how badly shaped the angled edge of the cut in the frame has been made.    What is needed is about a 45 degree angle on the top edge of the window cut (mostly).  That angle pushes the rising round forward slightly, off the frame and into the carrier block.  Problem is much worse with 9 or 10 rounds loaded, as pressure from the mag tube spring on the other cartridges press that "last" round into the top edge in the frame.

 

Here's a good description of the problem with the "loading gate mortise jam" and how to fix it.   I've done many, and every fix (takes about 15 minutes after disassembling the rifle to get access to the frame) has solved the problem of the gun jamming when working the lever after filling the magazine.  

 

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info/

 

Read the one-page article named:  "Model 66 & 73 frame modification to improve feeding of the first round"

 

This mortise jam is not caused by ammo length.  1.500" up to 1.600" rounds CAN fail to let you lever in the first round of a loaded magazine. 

 

One can see that if the OPs poblem was "too short ammo", then there would be jams on almost every round except the very last round to come out of the mag (where there is no following round to get in the way of the carrier rising).

 

Where a too-short length cartridge CAN cause problems is with part of the second round in the magazine partially coming into the carrier along with all of the first round.  If the carrier fails to rise simply because of that "next" (second) round sticking back onto the carrier, you either will need to load to a longer OAL on the cartridge, or modify the "return ramp" on the front face of the carrier to push the second round back into the magazine as the lever raises the "first" round up to the chamber.  I am surprised, though, that you can cycle a non-tuned rifle with a cartridge length of 1.500" - so perhaps your carrier (lifter) has already been "resloped" to allow short cartridges.   Most of the factory guns will start to jam with the two-rounds-on-carrier problem at about 1.530" OAL cartridges.

 

good luck, GJ

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PLUS ONE for Garrison Joe (mostly)

 

The problem is the back wall of the mortice.  At the bottom, it need a nice tasty 45 (or so) degree bevel filed onto the carrier side.

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18 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 At the bottom, it need a nice tasty 45 (or so) degree bevel filed onto the carrier side.

 

For a clear way to state this, the bevel goes into the top edge of the mortise, just under where the bolt channel is in the frame.   That way, as the carrier rises, there is no part of the frame that can catch the rim of the cartridge.   Remember as you look at the Pioneer Gun Works photos of this fix, the photos have been taken from the bottom of the frame (looking up into the lifter shaft).  

 

good luck, GJ

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On 11/14/2023 at 8:19 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

For a clear way to state this, the bevel goes into the top edge of the mortise, just under where the bolt channel is in the frame.   That way, as the carrier rises, there is no part of the frame that can catch the rim of the cartridge.   Remember as you look at the Pioneer Gun Works photos of this fix, the photos have been taken from the bottom of the frame (looking up into the lifter shaft).  

 

good luck, GJ

Ahhhhh, now I understand.

Thank you Garrison Joe!!!

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