1860 Henry Help

[Major Art Tillery]

I have a Navy Arms 1860 Henry... Beautiful rifle.  Bought it on the chance it wasn't the older ones that had the larger firing pin extension.... It was.  No big deal I will tune it up and run it.   

 

I get this thing and it has the worst hammer main spring ever! (Lower spring is from the Navy Arms in photo, look how thick that thing is!) I assume any after market main spring for 1860,66, or 73 will work? 

 

And the Extractor is over sprung as well, gouging the brass. I have never tuned an extractor... So Anyone have some pointers for me?

[Sedalia Dave]

Check that the extractor groove in the barrel is large enough to allow that extractor to climb over the rim. Looks like it is either too small or there is something stuck inside the cut limiting the ability of the carrier to climb over the rim.

[Major Art Tillery]

4 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Check that the extractor groove in the barrel is large enough to allow that extractor to climb over the rim. Looks like it is either too small or there is something stuck inside the cut limiting the ability of the carrier to climb over the rim.

Will do, never thought of that honesty.. 

[Tully Mars]

34 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Check that the extractor groove in the barrel is large enough to allow that extractor to climb over the rim. Looks like it is either too small or there is something stuck inside the cut limiting the ability of the carrier to climb over the rim.

It's also possible the extractor has been replaced with a 73' extractor which is taller. If that's the case the extractor height can be filed down.

[Major Art Tillery]

42 minutes ago, Tully Mars said:

It's also possible the extractor has been replaced with a 73' extractor which is taller. If that's the case the extractor height can be filed down.

Pretty sure it is all stock, but a fella never knows.  Would a 73 extractor work with a little a little work?  I know sure hit sights make a tuned one of those.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

1 hour ago, Major Art Tillery said:

 And the Extractor is over sprung as well, gouging the brass. I have never tuned an extractor... So Anyone have some pointers for me?

Try replacing it with the aftermarket extractor, in some cases it may solve your problem.  If the extractor that's on your rifle now is stock, they may be more stiffer than the aftermarket ones.  Tuning an extractor is by filing at underneath the tail end of the extractor, it's a delicate matter and a trial and error thing.  

[Tully Mars]

21 minutes ago, Major Art Tillery said:

Pretty sure it is all stock, but a fella never knows.  Would a 73 extractor work with a little a little work?  I know sure hit sights make a tuned one of those.

 

There's a difference in the profile of the 73' vs 66' extractors. Yes you can make a 73' fit, it's far easier to start with the correct extractor. Unfortunately they are hard to come by right now. Try Shotgun Boogie, however if you buy his, it needs fitting. The above picture is from Pioneer Gun Works, they might have them in stock?

 

How does your extractor compare? To the above pictures?

 

The main spring should be the same as a 73' to answer the original question. 

[Two Dot, 14911]

Looks like either the extractor needs to be reshaped or maybe the timing is off on the rifle.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

It appears your Main Spring is intended to fit into a "hook" on the lower tang.  Is this the case??  Newer build rifles have a retaining screw for the Main Spring.  Before you buy a new extractor, measure your Breach Block (bolt) as it appears you have you have an older build rifle there are NO replacement parts for.  If you have a recent build Uberti (10 - 15 years) you can compare dimensions of the Carrier Block and Breach Block.  The "OLD" guns have smaller parts.  Current parts will NOT fit those guns.

 

What you have, may well be "what you have" 

[Pb Mark]

Pretty sure this will take care of the heavy hammer spring issue and is in stock.  I'm using one in my 1873 and very happy with it.

 

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

t appears your Main Spring is intended to fit into a "hook" on the lower tang.

 

The hook goes over a pivoting T that is pinned to the hammer. 

 

[Major Art Tillery]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

It appears your Main Spring is intended to fit into a "hook" on the lower tang.  Is this the case??  Newer build rifles have a retaining screw for the Main Spring.  Before you buy a new extractor, measure your Breach Block (bolt) as it appears you have you have an older build rifle there are NO replacement parts for.  If you have a recent build Uberti (10 - 15 years) you can compare dimensions of the Carrier Block and Breach Block.  The "OLD" guns have smaller parts.  Current parts will NOT fit those guns.

 

What you have, may well be "what you have" 

The main spring is held in with a retaining screw.  I have a couple of other Henry's.. I will pull another apart and do some comparison of parts.  Thanks for the info.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

That mark on cases might be from a bent upwards cartridge support tab that is acting like a chisel to cut your case head on the bottom of the rim as it chambers.   I doubt the springy extractor with it's beveled nose (which acts as a ramp) would do damage like that.   If the cartridge support tab has a sharp V at it's tip, that needs to be blunted.   If the support tab's main bar has been bent out of parallel with the bolt axis, then a new tab will have to be welded in or the bolt modified for a replaceable tab.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Sedalia Dave:

 

I'm not talking about the hook that goes over the "link" in the hammer.  Old build Henry, Original Henry, and old/original 1866 had a large "boss" on the lower tang with a slot cut that created a "hook" to retain the Main Spring.  The Old Build and Original Brass rifles had Main Springs that were like the one pictured by the OP.  It may well still be an "Old Build" rifle with NO replacement parts available.

[Major Art Tillery]

On 4/28/2023 at 3:25 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

That mark on cases might be from a bent upwards cartridge support tab that is acting like a chisel to cut your case head on the bottom of the rim as it chambers.   I doubt the springy extractor with it's beveled nose (which acts as a ramp) would do damage like that.   If the cartridge support tab has a sharp V at it's tip, that needs to be blunted.   If the support tab's main bar has been bent out of parallel with the bolt axis, then a new tab will have to be welded in or the bolt modified for a replaceable tab.

 

Good luck, GJ

Taking another look at this Henry tonight, I believe that is just the case.  The bolt tab is what is hitting and cutting up the brass rim.

[Griff]

CC, are you talking about something like the Paterson uses for its mainspring?

[Major Art Tillery]

On 4/28/2023 at 3:25 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

That mark on cases might be from a bent upwards cartridge support tab that is acting like a chisel to cut your case head on the bottom of the rim as it chambers.   I doubt the springy extractor with it's beveled nose (which acts as a ramp) would do damage like that.   If the cartridge support tab has a sharp V at it's tip, that needs to be blunted.   If the support tab's main bar has been bent out of parallel with the bolt axis, then a new tab will have to be welded in or the bolt modified for a replaceable tab.

 

Good luck, GJ

Who would be the best to contact to have a new tab done on the bolt?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I've only had one done.   A more perfect result I could not have imagined.  Smith?   Lassiter.

 

In practical terms, though, it's not a tough job for a smith who can TIG weld tool steel into the soft steel of an Uberti bolt.  Anymore, though, I'd prefer a slot be milled and drilled for a replaceable tab.  (I understand Lassiter can do that too).

 

At the same time, there needs to be an action timing test conducted to find out how the tab was bent, or it will happen again, most likely.

 

good luck, GJ