Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Thoughts on Wind and Solar power


Recommended Posts

I have the same automatic switch because of the generator. With care and a big propane tank we won't freeze.  Heat, well I grew up before AC, and we know the morning / night drill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2022 at 3:57 PM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

No sarcasm required; I have yet to see an EV pollution analysis that factors in the pollution caused  by the upstream activities required to generate and transport the electricity used to manufacture the vehicles and keep them charged.  Where do folks think that power comes from?  Some magical electric bush?  snipped....

 

LL

 

If you think about it a different way; there is a reason electric power plants are not made up of a whole bunch of internal combustion engines. 

 

Electric motors are very efficient, the problem is the batteries are not energy dense.  In comparison, gas engines are not efficient, but fortunately gasoline is super energy dense, like a 1000 sticks of tnt dense per gas tank, overcoming the inefficiency. 

 

Theoretically, we could put a small gasoline engine generator in every house, and generate electricity that way, completely eliminating power plants. 

The reason that won't happen with today's technology is that would be no where near as efficient as our current mode of making electricity, and conversely generate way way more emissions. The current mode, even if using coal or natural gas instead of solar/wind/nuclear is still significantly more efficient and thus also cleaner, than putting an engine in everyone's house. 

 

Someone else already pointed out the break even is at about 30,000 miles, give or take. This article says even less.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

 

 

Edited by Rooster Cognizant
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As pointed out by rooster we could easily run small generators for power generation.  We don’t do that as it’s more efficient to have big power plants.   In the case of coal or natural gas plants, it’s easier to control emissions from one source instead of many.  
In Colorado the last time I checked, an ev was about as clean as a gas car getting 36 mpg.   So drive a car  that does better than that and there is no break even point.  Really depends on your grid source.  Also many times the comparisons are disingenuous as they compare an ev, that if gas would get about 40 mpg vs a “standard” car that gets mid 20 mpg.   The only ev made that has a body type that would be mid 20’s is the new lightning and they were just released.  
the problem with solar and charging cars is they need huge amounts of energy.  I routinely used 45+kwh per day for charging two cars.  Also they are not at home when the sun is shining.  They are sitting in a parking lot somewhere.  Without a huge battery, there is no easy way to use the solar at its point of generation.  At best most people offset usage, ie provide energy to the grid during the day and draw out at night.  That does mean once the grid is fully utilized at night for ev charging, there will be lots of ng or coal plants running as wind and solar don’t work well at night.   This will increase emissions.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last week there was an electric car along side 295 that ran out of juice. Seems a polluting tow truck had to pull it home. It was on the news.  There was also an electric car here that caught on fire, lucky it was in the driveway and not charging in the garage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Last week there was an electric car along side 295 that ran out of juice. Seems a polluting tow truck had to pull it home. It was on the news.

 

Thankfully, one can't run out of energy with a gas/diesel car... :ph34r:

 

Of course, with a combustion engine car you can just bring a can of gas. On the other hand, you can charge a couple of miles to your EV on every normal wall oulet. It's slow, but you don't need special EV chargers.

 

Btw, a lot of reasons combustion engine cars get towed for you don't have any more in an EV ;)

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Rooster Cognizant said:

Someone else already pointed out the break even is at about 30,000 miles, give or take. This article says even less.

That's a number I also recently heard, 50'000 km for break even.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

A fellow came out to hunt driving one of these 'Lectric Marvels.  It was charging most of the time at the motel and he was riding around in the outfitter's big 'ol diesel pickup.  He was going to have several stopovers going home - would have been just a long day in a gas or diesel fueled vehicle.  Hopefully there will still be fuel while I'm alive, I'll go Amish style before electric.

Edited by Rip Snorter
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

a lot of reasons combustion engine cars get towed for you don't have any more in an EV

 

 

No, no, NO!  ONLY EVs have to get towed!  Never in the history of the automobile has an ICE car ever run out of fuel or had to be towed for any reason.  
Just as no ICE vehicle has ever burst into flames.  Only EVs do that.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

No, no, NO!  ONLY EVs have to get towed!  Never in the history of the automobile has an ICE car ever run out of fuel or had to be towed for any reason.  
Just as no ICE vehicle has ever burst into flames.  Only EVs do that.

I didn't finish the post, phone call. Seems the EV Owner called the States Roadside assistance, (Road Rangers) and said he/she ran out of fuel. When they arrived and seen it was an EV, is when they called for towing. The Road Ranger driver said in interview, that when people call they ran out of fuel, we bring along a gallon or 2 and was ready to give same service when they realized it was an EV. The owner asked if they didn't have a quick charge for EV on their trucks and was upset that a Tow Truck had to be called.

Sorry I didn't finish and didn't think I posted it yet. Just now caught it had forgotten about it.

Edited by Marshal Dan Troop 70448
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I didn't finish the post, phone call. Seems the EV Owner called the States Roadside assistance, (Road Rangers) and said he/she ran out of fuel. When they arrived and seen it was an EV, is when they called for towing. The Road Ranger driver said in interview, that when people call they ran out of fuel, we bring along a gallon or 2 and was ready to give same service when they realized it was an EV. The owner asked if they didn't have a quick charge for EV on their trucks and was upset that a Tow Truck had to be called.

Sorry I didn't finish and didn't think I posted it yet. Just now caught it had forgotten about it.

 

More and more roadside assistance services have either generators or battery packs, but you have to tell them when you call that you have an EV so they can send out the right unit.  And, OK, so the wrecker comes out, powers up his generator, uses maybe half a gallon of gas to get you enough charge to get to a commercial charger where you will take on a full charge that will let you go 150 to 200 miles.  Not bad on a half gallon of gas.

My sarcasm is at the tone of the post to which I was responding, a post that strongly implied that ONLY EVs have to use "a polluting tow truck" as if ICE cars never have to be towed or need any roadside assistance.  

 

I've never bought into the mantra that EVs are a cure-all for all our problems, nor have I preached it.  And I freely acknowledge that there are large parts of the country that are not (yet) suitable for EVs.  I'd just like to see some acknowledgement from the ALLEVSAREWORKSOFSATAN!!!!! crowd that yes, there are some applications for which they are well suited, that it doesn't take 70,000 tons of coal to charge an EV enough to go around the block, and that just because an EV passenger car can't tow a fully loaded 28 foot trailer up a 7% grade for 1,000 miles at 75 mph between charges they aren't useless.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except for the Dodge variety, chargers are few and far between out here.  There may be some in the city, but I'm not aware of them.  Traffic is light and distances are significant.  150 mile round trip to the city, plus whatever driving around is necessary to get errands done.  No margin for error or emergency.  And at the end of it all they don't pollute any less, they just shift the pollution out of their neighborhood. And then there are the batteries, and the local mechanic isn't generally equipped to fix them!  Just more "feel good" green bunkum.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something I haven't heard, nor read. How does temperature effect range and longevity of the batteries?  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im all for wind and solar power - if it is developed in the private sector without government funding and proven to be cost effective , just like the automobile - it replaced the horse when it became viable and economical without government funding , otherwise it is unsupported and will fail as did many car companies over the last century or more , 

 

government has no place in this 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Something I haven't heard, nor read. How does temperature effect range and longevity of the batteries?  

 

 

It has a big effect.  Cold batteries don’t like to be charged or discharged fast, this means charge times on cold batteries are 2-3x as long to prevent damaging the battery.  Range also drops significantly with temperature.   Can be a 30-50% reduction for very cold conditions.   Heat doesn’t seem to effect range, but kills battery life.   Ask Nissan how well air cooled batteries work in Arizona in the summer.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Something I haven't heard, nor read. How does temperature effect range and longevity of the batteries?  

 

 

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/how-much-do-cold-temperatures-affect-an-evs-driving-range-a5751769461/#:~:text=Cold temperatures can reduce an,the car all sap range.

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134470_cold-weather-affects-ev-range-differently-for-each-model-here-are-some-examples

 

Also, contrary to the OHMYGAWD! YOU WILL INSTATNLY FREEZE TO DEATH IF CAUGHT IN THE SNOW!!! crowd: https://jalopnik.com/getting-stuck-in-a-snow-storm-in-an-electric-car-isnt-t-1848393538

 

Edited by Subdeacon Joe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Interesting articles. But the one thing I would never do is charge or store if I had one, in the garage. I haven't followed much on the news or checked out on the internet until 2 EVs in area caught on fire by themselves. In fact, my House Insurance Agent has sent me an E Mail to update any changes needed on my insurance and one question was if I owned an EV and if so was it parked in the garage. Makes me wonder if rates will go up? Same thing with insurance companies now sending agents out to check roofs after 15 years to check shingles and if roof needs replacements.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I haven't followed much on the news or checked out on the internet until 2 EVs in area caught on fire by themselves.

 

Ford just issued a recall for some SUVs because they might burst into flames.  I guess that means no ICE vehicles should be parked in a garage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.