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Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438

Target Carbine Revolvers

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Muzzle loader. . .?

-------------------

It is a revolver with a long barrel.

You load this like any other cap & ball revolver.

Powder, wad & ball goes directly in at the front of the cylinder and you ram each of them home.
 

You do not load through the end of the muzzle.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Is a target carbine revolver, such as Uberti's 1858 New Army, a "muzzleloader"?

 

https://www.uberti-usa.com/new-army-and-target-carbine-revolvers

 

LL

It looks to be a standard cap and ball.  You load into the cylinder, not through the muzzle.

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3 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Is a target carbine revolver, such as Uberti's 1858 New Army, a "muzzleloader"?

 

https://www.uberti-usa.com/new-army-and-target-carbine-revolvers

 

LL

 

In the eyes of the BATF yes. Loads like any other C&B firearm. 

 

Note: The Target Carbine is not SASS legal. 

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Yeah; Loophole looking for a loophole.

There's no rifle hunting in MA.

But we do have a "primitive firearm" season.

Percussion and flints.

With some confusing and conflicting State definitions, and use of "muzzleloader" without a precise definition.

Which set me to wondering if, by any stretch, a percussion carbine could be considered a "muzzleloader".

Just a moment of insanity trying to find a way to use something other than a shotgun or a Kentucky rifle to hunt.

Never mind.

Nothing to see here.

Just a struggle against a very confining bureaucracy.

 

LL

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20 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Yeah; Loophole looking for a loophole.

There's no rifle hunting in MA.

But we do have a "primitive firearm" season.

Percussion and flints.

With some confusing and conflicting State definitions, and use of "muzzleloader" without a precise definition.

Which set me to wondering if, by any stretch, a percussion carbine could be considered a "muzzleloader".

Just a moment of insanity trying to find a way to use something other than a shotgun or a Kentucky rifle to hunt.

Never mind.

Nothing to see here.

Just a struggle against a very confining bureaucracy.

 

LL

 

I never actually checked, but I recall being told once that it was okay for flintlocks to have a rifled barrel, but that caplocks had to be smoothbore.  I've also been told that although you can use rifled slugs in a shotgun, it must still be a smoothbore barrel.   Since I am not a hunter, I never bothered to check on these statements, but in here in the Commonwealth, I'd not be surprised if all of them were not true.

 

SO, even if the revolver carbine is legally a muzzleloader, it's not a smoothbore.

You folks in California have got it easy...

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That’s a first.  It’s nice to learn CA hunters have something easy.

 

Most of the firearm community is constantly dealing with increasingly draconian laws.

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In every state I have used a muzzleloader to hunt in they define it as a single-shot. A revolver would not be legal in any of those states. 

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I would say it won't fly. They do allow in-lines which will be far more accurate and weather-resistant than the carbine you mentioned.

 

 

“During the "primitive firearms" (muzzleloader) part of the open deer season, muzzle-loading primitive firearms must be of a type similar to those in common use during the mid-1800s, and which meet the following criteria: loaded from the muzzle, fired from the shoulder, has either a caplock or flintlock ignition system.

So-called "in-line" ignition systems which have a horizontal firing mechanism instead of a traditional hammer system are lawful, provided they meet all other provisions of these requirements; may be either rifled bore or smoothbore, is of a caliber not less than .44 nor greater than .775, and has a barrel length of 18 inches or longer, is used only with black powder or a synthetic substance such as "Pyrodex" which is approved for competitive muzzle-loading shoots by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, contains only one usable barrel; in the case of primitive firearms with double barrels, one barrel shall be made inoperative by removal of the nipple and hammer, is used with only a single lead projectile, including a round ball, pumpkin ball, Minie or Maxi bullet, or other spherical or conical projectile (i.e., no buckshot). Sabot rounds are lawful, regardless of composition, as are jacketed or belted projectiles, muzzle-loading firearms which use shotgun (209) primers are lawful, provided that the firearm meets all other provisions of these requirements; conventional sights, including telescopic sights, are lawful on muzzle-loading firearms; however, laser sights or any other sights which project a beam are unlawful.”

Firearms with a break-open ("hinge action") breech are lawful.Primitive firearms used during the "shotgun" part of the open deer season, or for the hunting of black bear or wild turkey, must meet the above criteria, except:

(a) firearms with a break-open ("hinge action") breech are lawful;
(b) firearms with more than one operable barrel are lawful; and
(c) for the hunting of wild turkey, must be smoothbore and may be used only with shot not larger than #4 nor smaller than #6,

“All other muzzle-loading long guns of any type and design may be used during the regulated open season for other species, provided that only shoulder-fired smoothbore muzzleloaders may be used in those areas and at those times when hunting is restricted to shotguns. Shoulder-fired muzzleloaders with a rifled bore may be used when rifles are lawful for hunting, except when rifles are restricted to those not larger than .22 caliber long rifle. Muzzleloading shotguns greater than 10 gauge (.775 caliber) may not be used for hunting. Refer to the Plain Language summary for hunting with handguns for information concerning muzzleloading pistols.”

“Some modern-design muzzle-loading firearms may not be "antique firearms" under state or federal law, and may require certain firearms permits or licenses. Check with the Massachusetts Department of Public Safety or U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives if you are uncertain.”

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Cholla said:

In every state I have used a muzzleloader to hunt in they define it as a single-shot. A revolver would not be legal in any of those states. 

 

Oregon DFW regs specifically outlaw revolvers:

 

Quote

 

It is unlawful to:
 ...

....
• Hunt with a revolving action muzzleloader.

 

SOURCE

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42 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I never actually checked, but I recall being told once that it was okay for flintlocks to have a rifled barrel, but that caplocks had to be smoothbore.  I've also been told that although you can use rifled slugs in a shotgun, it must still be a smoothbore barrel.   Since I am not a hunter, I never bothered to check on these statements, but in here in the Commonwealth, I'd not be surprised if all of them were not true.

 

SO, even if the revolver carbine is legally a muzzleloader, it's not a smoothbore.

You folks in California have got it easy...

 

Actually, what I found is:
 

Loaded from the muzzle, fired from the shoulder, a caplock or flintlock ignition system, rifled bore or smoothbore, caliber not less than .44 or greater than .775, barrel length of 18 inches or longer, lacks a break open breech, is used only with black powder or a synthetic substance such as "Pyrodex", contains only one usable barrel and is used with a single lead projectile.

By: Massachusetts Department of Fisheries and Wildlife

Posted on: 11/30/01

 

Part of what Cholla posted above.B)

 

LL

 

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