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Quizcat

Is "Taylor Tuning" a good deal?

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Taylor's & Company offers a service on quite a number of their new firearms they call "Taylor Tuned."  Taylor Tuned means your new firearm will be tuned and polished by hand, by their in-house gunsmith, in their Winchester, Virginia shop.  Taylor's & Company claims their service includes lightened hammer and trigger pull with custom springs, and that they will work diligently with customers who have special requests to accommodate their shooting styles, etc...And, of course, the warranty after Taylor Tuning is honored by Taylor's & Company.  So, if you're disatisfied, you might have more of a leg to stand on.

 

I've been eyeing their "Taylor Tuned" version of their 1873 Lever Action Rifle Collection, which are available with "Taylor Tuned" action work for about $243.00 more than the "untuned" regular cost of the very same rifle.  The regular price for their 1873 Lever Action, 20" barrel, .357/38spl., in either pistol grip or straight grip, is quite competitive with other sources, Cimarron, EMF, etc...Based on the pricing I got on a tuning job on a Rossi M92, it was almost that much when all was said and done, and you would end up with a Rossi, and not a Uberti.  But, of course, a Rossi M92 is less than half the price of a Uberti.

 

They also offer this same tuning "service" on most of the Taylor's & Company revolvers as well.  The spread on Taylor Tuning a New Model Cattleman, just as an example, seems to run around $114.00 more. 

 

What's the cost of tuning-up an 1873 Lever Rifle by a reputable freelance tuning speciialist?  A $243 premium sounds pretty reasonable to me if the tuning job is up to par compared to some of the prices I've been seeing from other reputable gunsmith's that specialize in tuning actions.  Anybody ever shoot a "Taylor Tuned" firearm?  What did you think of it?

Edited by Quizcat

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I have a deluxe smoke wagon that is Taylor tuned (bought factory that way). I like it a lot and have used it for a few matches. There's a noticable difference for me in how slick it feels compared to an out-of-the-box stock gun.

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I have two pair of Runnin Irons.  My first pair was "Taylor Tuned."  My second pair was not.  The second pair was just as smooth as the "tuned" pair.  In fact only one of these guns had to go back to Taylor's for repair and it was one of the "tuned" guns.  Personally I'd save my money if we are talking about handguns that they tune on site.  It is my understanding that some of their rifles are sent out to some top Cowboy smiths for tuning.  Those may be worth the money.

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Quizcat - have you shot either an 1873 or a '92?  Or a Marlin '94?

 

Most shooters have a definite preference for one rifle over the other two.

 

Then add the difference between a straight stock and a pistol grip - some shooters again find one better for them than the other.

 

I strongly suggest you shoot some rifles in different configurations, that are slicked up by different 'smiths, before you hand over any money.

 

I also recommend you do the same for pistols.

 

All 'smith-work is not the same.

 

If you've only ever shot a new, out-of-the box Uberti rifle, a Taylor-tuned version will feel considerably better. IMHO

 

If you can shoot rifle's that have been tuned by any of the other 'smiths, side by side, you can start to feel differences in the action.

 

Not to say that any one 'smith is better than another, but they are different.

 

And, some people prefer the feel of one particular 'smiths work to another's.

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Beware of the "cut and weld" short stroke on the rifle.  I had lots of trouble with mine and wound up having to buy a 3rd gen ss kit and a new lever.:angry:

 

The Smokewagons are fine!

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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Rifles:  Don't confuse "Taylor Tuned", which is some smoothing of rough parts and some lightened springs, with a full action job and short-stroke by by a reputable gunsmith.

Is it worth the little they ask?  Yes, it will be a smoother action than a stock rifle.  But it's not what you'd get from a gunsmith experienced with the game.

 

To echo what has been said, you really need to handle some rifles and see what "fits" you best, before you buy.

There are '73's with a Crescent butt, Carbine butt, Straight stock, Pistol Grip stock, Carbines, Short Rifles, 18", 20", 24" barrels and more... all, (and combinations of those), make for a different "feel".  There are '66s with all the above.

The carbines are easier to swing quickly from one target to the next.  The rifles are heavier and more stable with less movement on target, the short rifle tries to be a middle ground... some like the carbine butt better than the crescent...  Which "fits" you??

Then there's the Miroku/Winchester that already comes with the equivalent of a 3rd Generation Short Stroke, right out of the box.  One "cowboy shooting" organization, (not SASS), won't allow it because of the short-stroke.  One maker of Short-Stroke kits won't make them for this rifle anymore, because there is little improvement over what's already there.  Again with all the barrel and stock options as above.

Then there are Marlin '94s.  Newest ones are quite good.  Again,  Crescent butt, Carbine butt, Carbines, Rifles, 19", 20", 24" barrels.  Great guns that even some of the top shooters are running.

 

There is no right or wrong choice, there is only what fits you, and only you can say.

 

Edited by McCandless
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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Beware of the "cut and weld" short stroke on the rifle.  I had lots of trouble with mine and wound up having to buy a 3rd gen ss kit and a new lever.:angry:

 

The Smokewagons are fine!

Mine works great, any one gun can have issues doesn't mean they all do.

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15 minutes ago, Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310 said:

Mine works great, any one gun can have issues doesn't mean they all do.

I didn't say they ALL did I just said "beware" of the cut and weld. I've talked to some others that have had issues also. I sent mine back once and even though it was supposedly worked on there was no difference. It was jamming and the timing was off. Like I said I had to have a 3rd gen ss kit installed and I had to buy a never lever also! The "cut" lever would not fit with the short stroke!

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Taylor's & Company responded further to my inquiries about exactly what they provide with respect to "Taylor Tuning" their actions:

 

"We do not use kits when we tune our revolvers or rifles.  On the rifles, our gunsmith replaces all the springs, the lever safety is lightened and all the internal parts are polished and the Carrier Block is switched out.  The Taylor Tuned are NOT Short Stroked."

 

What I'm not sure of is if Taylor Tuning might be kind of redundant if you intended to have it short stroked later, and short stroking the mechanism was going to require tuning all over again.

 

 

Edited by Quizcat

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7 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

Taylor's & Company responded further to my inquiries about exactly what they provide with respect to "Taylor Tuning" their actions:

 

"We do not use kits when we tune our revolvers or rifles.  On the rifles, our gunsmith replaces all the springs, the lever safety is lightened and all the internal parts are polished and the Carrier Block is switched out.  The Taylor Tuned are NOT Short Stroked."

 

What I'm not sure of is if Taylor Tuning might be kind of redundant if you intended to have it short stroked later, and short stroking the mechanism was going to require tuning all over again.

 

 

Ask them if the do a cut and weld on the lever. Maybe they stopped doing that.???

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26 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Ask them if the do a cut and weld on the lever. Maybe they stopped doing that.???

They said they don't do any short stroking...I don't know anything about it, but I assume the cut and welding is part of the short stroking process?

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9 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

They said they don't do any short stroking...I don't know anything about it, but I assume the cut and welding is part of the short stroking process?

No it is not. This is the reason I had to buy a new lever to fit the short stroke I had to buy. They actually cut the lever then weld it. It is NOT a short stroke kit!

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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1 hour ago, Quizcat said:

They said they don't do any short stroking...I don't know anything about it, but I assume the cut and welding is part of the short stroking process?

 

No, the "Taylor Tuned" is not a cut an weld.  It's just the basics, a quick smoothing of any rough parts or burrs, lightened springs, and apparently they lighten the carrier.  I do not know if they mill out the brass carrier or just swap in an aluminum one.  

 

If you are going to have your Uberti short-stroked, might as well just have the gunsmith do the whole job.  They are going to have to retime it anyway.

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1 hour ago, McCandless said:

 

No, the "Taylor Tuned" is not a cut an weld.  It's just the basics, a quick smoothing of any rough parts or burrs, lightened springs, and apparently they lighten the carrier.  I do not know if they mill out the brass carrier or just swap in an aluminum one.  

 

If you are going to have your Uberti short-stroked, might as well just have the gunsmith do the whole job.  They are going to have to retime it anyway.

The Comanchero 73 I bought two years ago was a cut and weld! Hopefully they stopped doing that! 

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2 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

No, the "Taylor Tuned" is not a cut an weld.  It's just the basics, a quick smoothing of any rough parts or burrs, lightened springs, and apparently they lighten the carrier.  I do not know if they mill out the brass carrier or just swap in an aluminum one.  

 

If you are going to have your Uberti short-stroked, might as well just have the gunsmith do the whole job.  They are going to have to retime it anyway.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, they would have to get full into it again to short stroke it, so you might as well have a reputable gunsmith do it all, one that has a proven track record in the CAS community, because you really wouldn't save anything by having it Taylor Tuned first...Thanks!

 

Not to disparage Taylor's & Company, because they do seem like a good company, with good products.  But, the replies I'm getting from them indicate that they don't quite understand that both tuning and short stroking are features that are both modifications that are in demand for CAS.  They seem to think you have to order one or the other.  But, I didn't talk directly to the gunsmith, and he may understand the distinction between both services being necessary for speed and cycling.  But, since I'm getting confused replies from their customer service personnel, it has me thinking that I would rather have someone that has a stellar reputation within the CAS community to do the short stroking and the tuning, because it doesn't seem to me that Taylor's & Company really gets it beyond the tuning services they offer.  

Edited by Quizcat

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The Comanchero 73 I bought two years ago was a cut and weld! Hopefully they stopped doing that! 

 

I was just thinking about it, and I don't think I've ever bought a brand new CAS rifle.   I simply bought what I like, give it to my gunsmith, who changes the links, springs, lifter, and carrier block, retimes it, does a trigger job, and more.  Why bother with new when basically the Uberti '73 is just a chassis waiting for the race motor, transmission and rear.  Since I don't run them box stock, what's the point of a new one?  No, it doesn't make me a faster shooter, but adds to my enjoyment to have them smooth and reliable.   Kinda like having that big 8 cylinder engine, even though I'm generally running just the speed limit... or that sweet guitar, that won't make me a better player, but it feels and sounds so much nicer.

Edited by McCandless
grammer

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27 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, they would have to get full into it again to short stroke it, so you might as well have a reputable gunsmith do it all, one that has a proven track record in the CAS community, because you really wouldn't save anything by having it Taylor Tuned first...Thanks!

 

Not to disparage Taylor's & Company, because they do seem like a good company, with good products.  But, the replies I'm getting from them indicate that they don't quite understand that both tuning and short stroking are features that are both modifications that are in demand for CAS.  They seem to think you have to order one or the other.  But, I didn't talk directly to the gunsmith, and he may understand the distinction between both services being necessary for speed and cycling.  But, since I'm getting confused replies from their customer service personnel, it has me thinking that I would rather have someone that has a stellar reputation within the CAS community to do the short stroking and the tuning, because it doesn't seem to me that Taylor's & Company really gets it beyond the tuning services they offer.  

 

That's because Taylor's runs three different types of revolvers, their biggest selling item.  Stock, "Taylor Tuned", and Short-Stroked.  Stock speaks for itself.  "Taylor Tuned" pistols have the action job and lighter springs.  Short Stroked pistols have an action job, short stroke, but standard springs because the lighter springs in combination with the short-stroke won't reliably set off all brands of primers. 

 

By the way, the "cut and weld" short-stoke has been around for a long time.  Cody Conagher and Lone Dude developed that first way of short-stroking the Uberti.  For the most part they are very reliable.  The Link Kits came along later.  There are several makers of the kits, and some have a few drawbacks also.  I personally prefer the Links, but have a two "Cody-Matics" that run just fine.

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44 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

I was just thinking about it, and I don't think I've ever bought a brand new CAS rifle.   I simply bought what I like, give it to my gunsmith, who changes the links, springs, lifter, and carrier block, retimes it, does a trigger job, and more.  Why bother with new when basically the Uberti '73 is just a chassis waiting for the race motor, transmission and rear.  Since I don't run them box stock, what's the point of a new one?  No, it doesn't make me a faster shooter, but adds to my enjoyment to have them smooth and reliable.   Kinda like having that big 8 cylinder engine, even though I'm generally running just the speed limit... or that sweet guitar, that won't make me a better player, but it feels and sounds so much nicer.

Depends on whether you can find what you want used. I've found that decent used 44-40's are few and far between as well as priced pretty high.

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The Comanchero 73 I bought two years ago was a cut and weld! Hopefully they stopped doing that! 

 

5 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Depends on whether you can find what you want used. I've found that decent used 44-40's are few and far between as well as priced pretty high.

Sounds more like a gunsmith issue than the method itself.

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Comanchero's and Taylor Tuned rifles are two completely different rifles. Each one is done by a different smith. If it's your first rifle than it is a fast and simple way to acquire a new competition ready rifle and there is nothing wrong with that. Others point out that there is a lot of ways to get a competition gun, SASS classifieds for example. My first and second 73's were Comanchero's but now I buy them stock and have them built else ware.

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1 minute ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

 Others point out that there is a lot of ways to get a competition gun, SASS classifieds for example. 

Or by going to a local match and asking if anyone has anything for sale...

 

After you've shot it to see if you like it.

 

May already be slicked up, even...

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35 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Depends on whether you can find what you want used. I've found that decent used 44-40's are few and far between as well as priced pretty high.

 

I was able to find just the one's I wanted, right here on the Classified Wire, .38-40 to match the Colt's revolvers.

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1 hour ago, McCandless said:

 

I was just thinking about it, and I don't think I've ever bought a brand new CAS rifle.   I simply bought what I like, give it to my gunsmith, who changes the links, springs, lifter, and carrier block, retimes it, does a trigger job, and more.  Why bother with new when basically the Uberti '73 is just a chassis waiting for the race motor, transmission and rear.  Since I don't run them box stock, what's the point of a new one?  No, it doesn't make me a faster shooter, but adds to my enjoyment to have them smooth and reliable.   Kinda like having that big 8 cylinder engine, even though I'm generally running just the speed limit... or that sweet guitar, that won't make me a better player, but it feels and sounds so much nicer.

This Commanchero was the first rifle I ever bought that was supposedly “race ready “. I was extremely disappointed to say the least. I’ve had several rifles that I bought new and stock and installed a short stroke.  Once myself and the rest I had gunsmiths do it. The Commanchero was jamming from the start. I sent it back and when I got it back it was exactly the same so I assume nothing was done which really frosted my shorts! I had to replace the lever because of the “cut and weld “ would not accept the short stroke kit I bought. A local gunsmith did the SS and it works great. This is why I said originally, BEWARE of the cut and weld!

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Personally. I would check with Jim at C&I (Cowboy and Indians)

I really like this short strokes and he does great work.

 

Would also check Cowboy Carty. He is doing some really good things with 73's

 

Save you time and money in the long run to just get one race ready.

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+1 on Cowboys and Indians

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