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Hoss

Is this OK?

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Instead of WTC!!!

 

Split pistol stage  Pistol, rifle, shotgun, pistol (from another location)

 

Shooter pulls 1st pistol, shoots targets. holsters, pulls and cocks other pistol, but before firing TO hollers wrong gun. can't decock, cant shoot other bank of pistol targets as they are in another location. TO tells shooter to expend the round, which shooter does into the berm. Holsters pistol, moves to shotgun, rifle, then to 2nd pistol location, pulls pistol shoots targets.  Only miss was the one fired into berm.

 

Call was one miss.

 

Could shooter have re-loaded the round at 2nd location (from ammo legally carried to the line) and erased the miss?  I think so, but want to be sure!  If shooter had shot the wrong pistol target instead of into the berm would that have made a difference?

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Nope - can't reload for a miss. Unless it's in the stage instructions.

 

Amended below .....  :huh:

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yes

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4 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

yes

Right you are sir - but then he gets "P" doesn't he?

 

If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the
shooter will be assessed a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the
shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angels or
target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty assessment
(the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedural and a miss).

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4 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

Right you are sir - but then he gets "P" doesn't he?

 

If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the
shooter will be assessed a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the
shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or
target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty assessment
(the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedural and a miss).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Could shooter have re-loaded the round at 2nd location (from ammo legally carried to the line) and erased the miss?

YES

 I think so, but want to be sure!  If shooter had shot the wrong pistol target instead of into the berm would that have made a difference?

YES...but he would still have a "P" for shooting from the wrong location...with no option to reload for hitting the wrong pistol target.

 

 

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so in the OP, it should have been scored as a P for shooting at wrong location  and a miss as shooter did not reload?

 

Shooter was only given the miss, no P applied

 

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Sounds right. He could have eliminated the miss with a reload, but he earned the P by shooting from wrong position.

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PW, Could the shooter, under the TOs direction, have lowered the hammer and re-indexed to an empty cylinder under the hammer and just taken the time with no "P" or miss? 

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11 minutes ago, Manassas Jack said:

PW, Could the shooter, under the TOs direction, have lowered the hammer and re-indexed to an empty cylinder under the hammer and just taken the time with no "P" or miss? 

 

I'm gonna go out on a little limb and see if my memory serves me correctly on this question.

 

NO.  Because the criteria for 'decocking' is effective BEFORE the first round is fired downrange. 

(Now, let me go find the rule).

 

EDIT:  ROI manual, pg 35.     

 

..........Widder

 

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9 minutes ago, Manassas Jack said:

PW, Could the shooter, under the TOs direction, have lowered the hammer and re-indexed to an empty cylinder chamber under the hammer and just taken the time with no "P" or miss? 

 

NO...Decocking is not allowed to avoid a penalty for cocking a firearm at the wrong time or position once the stage has begun (first round goes downrange)

I'll let Widder look it up and post the reference page.

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1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

NO...Decocking is not allowed to avoid a penalty for cocking a firearm at the wrong time or position once the stage has begun (first round goes downrange)

I'll let Widder look it up and post the reference page.

 

Gladly my friend.

 

ROI manual, Page 35.

 

 

..........Widder

 

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5 minutes ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

The P was earned but the shooter could have shot one of the pistol targets in front of them, to avoid a miss or the need to reload at P2 position. No need to shoot into the berm.

Good idea !

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1 hour ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

The P was earned but the shooter could have shot one of the pistol targets in front of them, to avoid a miss or the need to reload at P2 position. No need to shoot into the berm.

even if it was the wrong bank of targets? the correct bank of targets were inaccessible due to angle

 

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6 minutes ago, Hoss said:

even if it was the wrong bank of targets? the correct bank of targets were inaccessible due to angle

 

 

If the shooter had chosen to HIT any pistol target, there would be NO MISS counted.

The shooter got the "P" for shooting from the wrong location (forced to due to cocking at the wrong time/location)

...since he can only be assessed one "P" per stage, the additional "P" for hitting the wrong pistol target is set aside...and the HIT would count.

 

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2 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

If the shooter had chosen to HIT any pistol target, there would be NO MISS counted.

The shooter got the "P" for shooting from the wrong location (forced to due to cocking at the wrong time/location)

...since he can only be assessed one "P" per stage, the additional "P" for hitting the wrong pistol target is set aside...and the HIT would count.

 

Gotcha. thanks for the clarification. 

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This is a little farfetched, but if a clean match was THAT important to the shooter, could he say "broken gun" and lay the cocked pistol down, then reloaded the first firearm completely when he got to the proper location?

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Am I missing something?  I think the OP didn't mention that the shooter got a P, only the miss because they fired the shot into the berm.

 

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33 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

This is a little farfetched, but if a clean match was THAT important to the shooter, could he say "broken gun" and lay the cocked pistol down, then reloaded the first firearm completely when he got to the proper location?

 

If I was the T/O in that situation, and suspected that there was nothing actually "broken" I would ask the shooter what exactly was "broken" (while still on the clock)...if a bona fide malfunction could not be proven, shooter would be directed to continue with the stage...no restart/reshoot....or be assessed a SDQ for the UNBROKEN cocked revolver leaving his hands.

Shooter would also be risking a MATCH DQ for "...unsportsmanlike conduct" (REF: SHB p.22) for attempting a stunt like that.

 

That would resolve any question regarding a "clean match".

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Red Eye Jim said:

Am I missing something?  I think the OP didn't mention that the shooter got a P, only the miss because they fired the shot into the berm.

 

 

The wrong call was made in the OP.

He asked if that was OK to reload for the round shot into the berm...that would have been, but the "P" for shooting from the wrong location was not assessed as it should have been.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

This is a little farfetched, but if a clean match was THAT important to the shooter, could he say "broken gun" and lay the cocked pistol down, then reloaded the first firearm completely when he got to the proper location?

Good food for an SOG !

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