Cause of 1866 jamming

[Chantry]

At the end of last season I stripped, cleaned and polished my Navy Arms 1866.  After reassembly, I went to rack the action a couple of times and sometimes the lever will refuse to move, usually on the down stroke, closing the action forcefully will sometimes allow the lever to be opened fully and sometimes I have to tilt the rifle down to get the lever to open fully.

 

Any thoughts on why this is happening?

[Jackson Rose, SASS #45478]

Check to see if the magazine follower is protruding onto the ramp of the lifter. They do wear out. Easiest way to check is take out the mag spring and follower, then rack the action.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Also, check the elevator spring to see that it holds up the elevator at the top of the stroke.  That will cause problems as well.

 

Teach you to clean your rifle!!!

[Gunbutcher]

When it jams again, hold it in the jammed position by keeping pressure on the lever. Then take a long skinny punch and apply pressure to the top of the brass lifter. You will have to navigate the punch past the bolt. If the lifter drops down any then this can be hanging the bolt from moving. 

[Chantry]

7 hours ago, Gunbutcher said:

When it jams again, hold it in the jammed position by keeping pressure on the lever. Then take a long skinny punch and apply pressure to the top of the brass lifter. You will have to navigate the punch past the bolt. If the lifter drops down any then this can be hanging the bolt from moving. 

 

That is what is happening, the carrier isn't always falling fast enough and the bolt is closing on the top part of the carrier

[Gunbutcher]

I understand now what you were describing. I was thinking it was jamming on opening and not the closing. Check the cam surface on the lifter arm to see if it is worn from the spring. 

[Cowboy Junky]

How did you adjust the carrier spring? Is it stock?

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Something similar happened to me a few years back. I cleaned my rifle and put it back together but then the carrier wouldn't drop just like yours. Frustrated, I took it apart and put it back together. Everything worked fine after that. I still have no idea exactly what happened or why, but it works fine now. Might be worth trying just in case. 

[Chantry]

1 hour ago, Cowboy Junky said:

How did you adjust the carrier spring? Is it stock?

 

The springs for the carrier arm are Whisper springs.    I have not had this problem before I did a complete cleaning and polished some of the moving parts at the end of last year,

[Yusta B.]

1 hour ago, Redwood Kid said:

Something similar happened to me a few years back. I cleaned my rifle and put it back together but then the carrier wouldn't drop just like yours. Frustrated, I took it apart and put it back together. Everything worked fine after that. I still have no idea exactly what happened or why, but it works fine now. Might be worth trying just in case. 

Try this - disassemble, inspect parts, reassemble.  - If you haven't done this yet.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Quote

That is what is happening, the carrier isn't always falling fast enough and the bolt is closing on the top part of the carrier

 

???   Go back and take another look, because you have sure confused me with your descriptions of when the problem occurs that the bolt won't move anymore.. 

 

One of two interference conditions normally exist between the bolt and the carrier. 

 

First occurs during the last 1/3 of the stroke of the lever as it is OPENING.  That is when the carrier starts to rise up the shaft.   Which kinda sounds like the condition you described in your Original Post.  There can be a collision where the carrier jams into the bottom of the bolt just as the bolt retracts fully into the receiver wall.  this is normally caused by timing being off, and will damage the cartridge support tab very quickly if the gun is not retimed.  I doubt this is the problem.  Continue reading.

 

Now (see quote above) you claim a different condition.  This would be where you are now pulling the lever closed, and the lever has traveled about 1/3 of the stroke to CLOSE the lever.  This is the point where the bolt starts to move forward and the face of the bolt can run into the back face of the carrier, especially if the carrier is a slight bit too high, perhaps caused by the carrier (right side) spring being tightened a little too tight. 
 

If the carrier is being held TOO HIGH in the shaft, perhaps by a too-tight carrier spring, a lifter arm that is bent or still really dirty, or the bore in the carrier that the tip of the lifter arm pushes up on is dirty or has picked up a burr, so that the top flat edges of the BACK end of carrier are not just level with the top of the frame but they are raised above the top of the frame, THEN you could have the bottom of the bolt face jam into the back face of the carrier as the bolt starts to go forward.   I bevel the circular hole at the back of the carrier just a little bit with a polishing bit if I feel any "bump" or "catch" as I start to run the bol forward.  You can see by looking down into the carrier if you need to bevel it just a little to let the bolt face and cartridge support tab slip freely forward into the raceway of the carrier.

 

You may, by doing a thorough cleaning, have cleaned enough crud out the shaft to let the carrier snap up and stick just a little bit too high, especially if you run the action hard and fast..

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cat Brules]

What do you mean.....exactly....when you say you "polished" the internal parts.  

--  Which parts?

--  What did your "polishing" of those parts entail?  A benign cleaning, or did you work them with a file or stone?  What was your objective in polishing the parts?

[Chantry]

18 hours ago, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said:

What do you mean.....exactly....when you say you "polished" the internal parts.  

--  Which parts?

--  What did your "polishing" of those parts entail?  A benign cleaning, or did you work them with a file or stone?  What was your objective in polishing the parts?

Polished the end of the lifter and the sides of the carrier so they were smooth using a cloth polishing wheel and polishing compound; it was done to remove any less then smooth spots and to reduce places rust can form since I shot BP subs.

 

19 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

???   Go back and take another look, because you have sure confused me with your descriptions of when the problem occurs that the bolt won't move anymore.. 

 

One of two interference conditions normally exist between the bolt and the carrier. 

 

First occurs during the last 1/3 of the stroke of the lever as it is OPENING.  That is when the carrier starts to rise up the shaft.   Which kinda sounds like the condition you described in your Original Post.  There can be a collision where the carrier jams into the bottom of the bolt just as the bolt retracts fully into the receiver wall.  this is normally caused by timing being off, and will damage the cartridge support tab very quickly if the gun is not retimed.  I doubt this is the problem.  Continue reading.

 

Now (see quote above) you claim a different condition.  This would be where you are now pulling the lever closed, and the lever has traveled about 1/3 of the stroke to CLOSE the lever.  This is the point where the bolt starts to move forward and the face of the bolt can run into the back face of the carrier, especially if the carrier is a slight bit too high, perhaps caused by the carrier (right side) spring being tightened a little too tight. 
 

If the carrier is being held TOO HIGH in the shaft, perhaps by a too-tight carrier spring, a lifter arm that is bent or still really dirty, or the bore in the carrier that the tip of the lifter arm pushes up on is dirty or has picked up a burr, so that the top flat edges of the BACK end of carrier are not just level with the top of the frame but they are raised above the top of the frame, THEN you could have the bottom of the bolt face jam into the back face of the carrier as the bolt starts to go forward.   I bevel the circular hole at the back of the carrier just a little bit with a polishing bit if I feel any "bump" or "catch" as I start to run the bol forward.  You can see by looking down into the carrier if you need to bevel it just a little to let the bolt face and cartridge support tab slip freely forward into the raceway of the carrier.

 

You may, by doing a thorough cleaning, have cleaned enough crud out the shaft to let the carrier snap up and stick just a little bit too high, especially if you run the action hard and fast..

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Thanks