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Vaquero 357 recoil plate is now recessed, problem solved will send it back


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Im sending the vaqueros to Long Hunter to inspect and fix. The thread has run its course.

 

 

 

 

After further inspection, I see the recoil plate where the firing pin protrudes has now become recessed slightly. This would cause an unsupported spot for the primer allowing it to back itself out slightly. I would take a picture but I dont think it would show up correctly.

 

 

How did that happen and how do I fix it? I checked all 3 other vaqueros and the recoil plates are all flush.

 

However, I just called LongHunt and they said they can fix it. I sure wouldnt have wanted to send it back to Ruger. Its not stock and I dont want it back stock. I bought the from LongHunt and they color cased them and tuned them.

 

No the cylinders arent mixed up, they are serialized and match the proper gun.

Edited by Home Range
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HR -

 

Can I suggest you go back to your original post and clean up the sentences. Several of them are not making sense.

 

A squib load and another load that is hot in the same batch of ammo might suggest your powder drop is not consistent, or other loading practices are not high quality, ending up with little powder in the squib and too much powder in the hot round.

 

Primers backing out (and staying backed out) in revolvers is usually caused by too light a load. It takes a moderate amount of pressure in the fired round to shove the fired empty case back against the recoil shield on the revolver, thus shoving the primer back into it's pocket. Because there is some play between the cartridge and the recoil shield on all revolvers, it is normal to have the primer momentarily set back against the recoil shield, then be re-seated into the pocket as the case slams against the recoil shield.

 

A pierced primer cup is not real common. That could have also been an indicator of real high pressures in the hot cartridge that you had. You will have to get that under control.

 

From your original post wording, I can't tell in which gun you have a problem, whether the high-pressure problem has repeated itself several times, whether the squib has occurred more than once, and exactly what rounds ended up with a pierced primer.

 

You MUST have it clear in your head, before you can really start to understand and then fix the problem. You MUST have it clear in your head before you can explain it to us. The common factor here - we can't help you much until YOU can understand clearly what the sequence of things happening was/is. Keep good notes when you run into a problem like this, if you can't keep it all in your head.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I'm with Garrison Joe on this. It sounds like you started having problems with consistent powder charges in your ammo. Maybe not all the powder cleared the drop tube in one case and the next case got the extra powder.

 

IMO the primer in the case on the left looks like it could be undercharged.

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This is all loaded on my dillion 650. The same way I have loaded ammo for many many years. Dont let the high sass number fool you.

 

I have a powder check die. I frequently stop in the middle of loading and weigh the charges. Never a deviation of more than .1 of my intended load.

 

I updated the original post to say that my vaqueros recoil shield has now become recessed. This would cause an unsupported primer.

 

The question now is how to fix that?

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Home Range

How old is your 650? Does the powder measure have the external return rod that connects to the ram? If not and you had a momentary failure to return, it could result in under- then over charging rounds. I experienced this several times with my old SDB. The powder I was using had some slightly oversize and irregular granules. The 550 I use now has the rod and does not have this problem. I occasionally see the powder bar hesitate like it is hanging on a weird granule, then the rod pulls down on the arm and it returns to the stop position. I loaded some Cowboy 357 with Unique this summer and noticed some of this, but wrote it off to the powder being several years old. I may be off base but this was my first thought as I read the topic.

I would also do like Pat Riot suggested and double check serial numbers on the cylinders...

My $.02

Imis

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First shot sounded like a squib but was not. Did you check the barrel, or assume it was ok because cylinder turned. As Garrison Joe said its hard to follow you trail of thoughts. If the firing pin bushing is recessed, it would take tremendous pressure. IE. firing a round after a squib. A trip back to Ruger would probably best idea. GW

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I have one 650 that is about 8 years old. I have one that is new this year. They are identical other than the new grease zerks.

 

I checked the cylinders again, yes they are correct.

 

The question now is how did the recoil plate get backed out? does that mean the recoil plate cross pin is damaged? I know to punch it from the loading gate side.

The pin is a couple bucks and the recoil plate is a few bucks. Im sure I can change it out.

 

Why did it happen? just happens sometimes, part failure, overcharged load??? what sets the recoil plate back?

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Ok, your recoil plate has sunk into the recoil shield because the plate's crosspin is probably sheared or missing.

 

Look at the parts diagram, parts 40 is the plate, and 41 is the shield plate crosspin

https://www.midwayusa.com/general.mvc/index/Schematics~ruger_vaquero

 

You can order those parts from several suppliers, Midway and Brownells being a couple of the premier vendors.

 

That cross pin is very tiny. Get a small enough pin punch to drive that out. Make sure you catch the firing pin spring and firing pin and put them back in using the same orientation as what they came out as.

 

That one(?) high-pressure load may have sheared or dislodged the crosspin. (?) That would be real unusual, as Ruger design is really stout. More likely the crosspin has worked it way loose and fallen out. Inspect closely and you probably can tell before you start disassembly.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Did you have a Shotgun Boogie or some other short stroke work done to this pistol where part of the work is to fiddle with the firing pin? If so, failure may stem from damage done when that work was performed.....

 

If that is the case, having it fixed by Jared at LongHunters would not be a bad idea at all....

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Long Hunter did all the work, I bought the guns new from them and at that time they color cased them and tuned them. I run my guns very fast and for probably 60 matches in the last 2 years they have function flawlessly. until now...

I did check out the schematic earlier, so I think that I can fix the issue, as long as I know what causes or caused the issue.

 

now where to find the parts in stock. Neither Brownells of Midway have both items. I would have to order 1 from each of them. Who else?

 

What else should I order parts wise while Im at it? Anything else break?

Edited by Home Range
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Long Hunter did all the work, I bought the guns new from them and at that time they color cased them and tuned them. I run my guns very fast and for probably 60 matches in the last 2 years they have function flawlessly. until now...

I did check out the schematic earlier, so I think that I can fix the issue, as long as I know what causes or caused the issue.

Running the guns fast did not cause this. If the retaining pin is not missing completely (I very seriously doubt that it is) I would look that gun over really carefully and measure to make sure that the frame did not stretch.

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now where to find the parts in stock. Neither Brownells of Midway have both items. I would have to order 1 from each of them. Who else?

 

THEN Order parts from Ruger (assuming they will let you buy those parts...)

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Could be a slight possibility that the frame suffered damage or was weakened by the bone-charcoal case hardening that Longhunter does. They (LH) don't (chemical) color case. They case harden guns. You might not be able to see that until you get the old plate out of the recoil shield.

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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The firing pin bushing seats solidly in the frame. It is not supposed to be dimensioned so that the retaining pin holds it out from its seat in the frame. If there is something wrong with the bushing seat in the frame it is not something you can fix. The retaining pin could be left out entirely and it should not affect how deep the bushing is sitting in the frame. If you don't know what you are doing returning the gun to Ruger would be the best course of action.

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The firing pin bushing seats solidly in the frame. It is not supposed to be dimensioned so that the retaining pin holds it out from its seat in the frame. If there is something wrong with the bushing seat in the frame it is not something you can fix. The retaining pin could be left out entirely and it should not affect how deep the bushing is sitting in the frame. If you don't know what you are doing returning the gun to Ruger would be the best course of action.

Larsen is correct. Even without the pin the bushing should register flush with the frame. Is the entire bushing sunken evenly or is it concave like it was forced into the bore by an overcharge? How far from flush is it?

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