Blood Washed SASS #79269 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Would someone please give me an example of this>???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Most common with a rifle run when you shoot 9 and put it down and shoot another gun. Example stage calls for a progressive sweep and you shoot it 1-2-2-4. You get a P for out of order, 5 seconds for the unfired round and a MSV for the round on the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatbush Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Ouch! That would hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 It's easily done with just the rifle. Shooter is shooting a progressive sweep, gets out of order (P), loses count and leaves one on the carrier, (MISS) and (SAFETY) Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Been there, done that and got the scars! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Yip it just happened to a shooter 2 weeks ago, rifle sequence, got out of order, had a miss, left one in the gun, 2 Misses, Procedual, Minor Safety, the trifecta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Washed SASS #79269 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Most common with a rifle run when you shoot 9 and put it down and shoot another gun. Example stage calls for a progressive sweep and you shoot it 1-2-2-4. You get a P for out of order, 5 seconds for the unfired round and a MSV for the round on the carrier.Consider this: Stage calls for 10 rifle rounds. Shooter engages rifle targets for 9 rounds, then fully opens the rifle lever, grounds rifle on table, then proceeds to shoot the shotgun. After the stage, the shooter is asked to lever the rifle. A live round flies out of the rifle. So there is no Procedural for not finishing the rifle before shooting shotgun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Consider this: Stage calls for 10 rifle rounds. Shooter engages rifle targets for 9 rounds, then fully opens the rifle lever, grounds rifle on table, then proceeds to shoot the shotgun. After the stage, the shooter is asked to lever the rifle. A live round flies out of the rifle. So there is no Procedural for not finishing the rifle before shooting shotgun? The unfired round is scored the same as a miss...and a "Miss Cannot Cause a Procedural" - RO1 p.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Washed SASS #79269 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Thanks for the replies everyone.....I understand now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim No Horse Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Btt for love potion defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Most common with a rifle run when you shoot 9 and put it down and shoot another gun. Example stage calls for a progressive sweep and you shoot it 1-2-2-4. You get a P for out of order, 5 seconds for the unfired round and a MSV for the round on the carrier. Consider this: Stage calls for 10 rifle rounds. Shooter engages rifle targets for 9 rounds, then fully opens the rifle lever, grounds rifle on table, then proceeds to shoot the shotgun. After the stage, the shooter is asked to lever the rifle. A live round flies out of the rifle. What is the difference in these two scenarios? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 What is the difference in these two scenarios? One was posted by Straight Arrow, and the other by Blood Washed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 In the first situation, one must first determine if the targets were spaced far enough apart to afford a "Clean Miss". If not, then the shooter could certainly claim that target #3 was indeed "Engaged", but the bullet missed and hit target #4. (see definition of what a miss is) THEN, target #4 was engaged only 3 times.... thus, no "P" should be awarded. If on the other hand the targets were indeed spaced far enough apart to provide for a "Clean Miss", the shooter indeed engaged the stage incorrectly, and a "P" is awarded. In the second scenario, there is simply not enough information given. Assuming that the targets were spaced sufficiently apart, then we need to know which target was not hit properly and when did it happen? If it was the last shot, then no "P" should be awarded, however, if it was not the last shot then it looks like a "P" to me. These situations are always confusing and it seems that they are rarely interpreted in the same light. Same situation, different call. IMO the spotters should know what order the targets were shot in, and advise the T.O. about the "P". I do not like the way things run their course. 25 sec in penalties, and on one stage, absolutely kills anyone's chances at a Big Match. OUCH! Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 What is the difference in these two scenarios? Straight Arrow Hombre, on 23 May 2016 - 5:12 PM, said: Most common with a rifle run when you shoot 9 and put it down and shoot another gun. Example stage calls for a progressive sweep and you shoot it 1-2-2-4. You get a P for out of order, 5 seconds for the unfired round and a MSV for the round on the carrier. In this one, the order of engagement is stated...shooter skipped the third shot on #3 and went to #4 = PROCEDURAL (out of order) Ended up with an UNFIRED ROUND (MISS) REMAINING (MSV) in the rifle. In this case, the "P" resulted both in the "miss" and MSV penalties. Blood Washed SASS #79269, on 23 May 2016 - 7:57 PM, said: Consider this: Stage calls for 10 rifle rounds. Shooter engages rifle targets for 9 rounds, then fully opens the rifle lever, grounds rifle on table, then proceeds to shoot the shotgun. After the stage, the shooter is asked to lever the rifle. A live round flies out of the rifle. No shooting order was given...the question was whether there is a "P" in addition to the miss (unfired round) & MSV (round remaining) for not finishing the rifle string before going to the shotgun. If the rifle targets were engaged in the proper order (if any specified) there would be no "P" for simply ending the string prematurely. I think you know my personal opinion regarding "overlapping targets" and the "clean miss" requirement...which is why I didn't mention it in any of the answers to the scenarios. If that was an issue, it MIGHT change the outcome...but, since that was NOT mentioned, it is not a factor. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 ... These situations are always confusing and it seems that they are rarely interpreted in the same light. Same situation, different call. IMO the spotters should know what order the targets were shot in, and advise the T.O. about the "P". I do not like the way things run their course. 25 sec in penalties, and on one stage, absolutely kills anyone's chances at a Big Match. OUCH! Every one of these situations is based on SHOOTER error (unless the T/O directed the shooter to the wrong target after a "glitch" mid-string...which would require MD intervention to negate the MSV on the reshoot) If a shooter wants to avoid the penalties, all that is required is to engage the targets in the prescribed order, fire all of the rounds required to complete the stage, and make certain that long guns are empty before moving to the next firearm of the stage. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 All true and correct. No disagreement, but I still don't like the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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