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Lightning Will, SASS#56934

What's the call?

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The directions for the rifle are to place 10 rounds on 4 targets. Shooter loads 11 rounds and hits the 4 targets with the 11 rounds. Would this be a procedural as the shooter did not do exactly as directed? :unsure:

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add a msv for overloading the rifle...

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Hey PB! There's no long an MSV for overloading the rifle, though there is a penalty for failing to correct that prior to going to the next gun/ULT. You also can't overload then use that extra round to make up a jacked out round. As long as the OP's shooter hit all four targets prior to firing the 11th round I would say it's a no call.

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There is no longer a violation for overloading a rifle. In this case, the only the penalty was for using the extra round, that's a P. If the 11th round was jacked out by the shooter, no call.

 

Fillmore

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so in reading PWB's link is the correct call a P for using illegally acquired ammo since the extra round was indeed fired?

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so in reading PWB's link is the correct call a P for using illegally acquired ammo since the extra round was indeed fired?

Yep.

 

FC

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oops

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oops indeed. I stand corrected.

Capt. Bill....I"ve stood in the same place plenty of times...I always learn something on the WTC threads.

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Gotta chime in on this one too since I'm looking at the other thread.

 

The following is an except from the above mentioned link to a PDF written presumably by PWB.

 

NO PENALTY for overloading. The following existing rules STILL apply: "P" + miss for use of ANY 'extra' round(s) preloaded in the magazine at the loading table to replace ANY that are ejected during the rifle shooting string. MSV for leaving rounds in the rifle at the end of the shooting string (shooter has until FIRING the next gun to clear it) …or...if the rifle is the last firearm used on the stage; it must be cleared before leaving the shooter's hand(s) @ the ULT. SDQ if an extra round ends up in the chamber (e.g. rifle returned to scabbard & the lever closes)

 

The question relates to the RED highlighted sentence. At the end of the highlighted quote under the heading NO PENALTY for overloading. The last few words lead me to believe that if I showed up @ the ULT with a round on the carrier there would be NO penalty (assuming it was my last gun used, and it has not left my hand/hands, and it was pointed in a safe direction). Am I correct in this assumption?

 

Ok I guess I'm either not as qualified as I thought, if I would call a MSV on myself in this case.

 

I may hand in my RO II pin if the above highlighted area is the ruling by PWB & the ROC.

 

Go ahead I can take it..., I've had that orange pin to long anyway.

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I've got a black one and I've been known to be wrong,,,, oh well!!!

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Gotta chime in on this one too since I'm looking at the other thread.

 

The following is an except from the above mentioned link to a PDF written presumably by PWB.

 

NO PENALTY for overloading. The following existing rules STILL apply: "P" + miss for use of ANY 'extra' round(s) preloaded in the magazine at the loading table to replace ANY that are ejected during the rifle shooting string. MSV for leaving rounds in the rifle at the end of the shooting string (shooter has until FIRING the next gun to clear it) …or...if the rifle is the last firearm used on the stage; it must be cleared before leaving the shooter's hand(s) @ the ULT. SDQ if an extra round ends up in the chamber (e.g. rifle returned to scabbard & the lever closes)

 

The question relates to the RED highlighted sentence. At the end of the highlighted quote under the heading NO PENALTY for overloading. The last few words lead me to believe that if I showed up @ the ULT with a round on the carrier there would be NO penalty (assuming it was my last gun used, and it has not left my hand/hands, and it was pointed in a safe direction). Am I correct in this assumption?

 

Yes. If you clear the gun before you lay it down, it's a "no call" now.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I gave the shooter a "P" but wasn't positive I was correct. I hated to do it but was sure a penalty of some sort was necessary. Thanks for your inputs. We all learn something all the time. :D

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Gotta chime in on this one too since I'm looking at the other thread.

 

The following is an except from the above mentioned link to a PDF written presumably by PWB.

 

NO PENALTY for overloading. The following existing rules STILL apply: "P" + miss for use of ANY 'extra' round(s) preloaded in the magazine at the loading table to replace ANY that are ejected during the rifle shooting string. MSV for leaving rounds in the rifle at the end of the shooting string (shooter has until FIRING the next gun to clear it) or...if the rifle is the last firearm used on the stage; it must be cleared before leaving the shooter's hand(s) @ the ULT. SDQ if an extra round ends up in the chamber (e.g. rifle returned to scabbard & the lever closes)

 

The question relates to the RED highlighted sentence. At the end of the highlighted quote under the heading NO PENALTY for overloading. The last few words lead me to believe that if I showed up @ the ULT with a round on the carrier there would be NO penalty (assuming it was my last gun used, and it has not left my hand/hands, and it was pointed in a safe direction). Am I correct in this assumption?

 

Ok I guess I'm either not as qualified as I thought, if I would call a MSV on myself in this case.

 

I may hand in my RO II pin if the above highlighted area is the ruling by PWB & the ROC.

 

Go ahead I can take it..., I've had that orange pin to long anyway.

If it was the firearm used you wouldn't earn the MSV until you took your hands off the rifle.

 

The rifle would be in a condition safe to move but not safe to leave your hands. No different than an empty hull in the shotgun if it's the last firearm used. You have until you release the gun to clear it.

 

Stan

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Ok I guess I'm either not as qualified as I thought, if I would call a MSV on myself in this case.

 

I may hand in my RO II pin if the above highlighted area is the ruling by PWB & the ROC.

 

Go ahead I can take it..., I've had that orange pin to long anyway.

You ain't getting outta here that easy. If you love the sport like I do you love knowing the ever evolving rules, if for no other reason but to help your fellow shooter.

 

Fillmore

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WOW... Well a couple weeks ago I gave myself a MSV when I showed up at the ULT with a spent hull (BACKWARDS NO LESS) on the carrier of my 97. Last gun used last shot fired, and did not leave my hands.

 

I do read the rules frequently, but I guess I need these ole eyes checked for reading comprehension

 

I guess I'll either turn in my orange pin, or sign up for the next RO II refresher course.

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WOW... Well a couple weeks ago I gave myself a MSV when I showed up at the ULT with a spent hull (BACKWARDS NO LESS) on the carrier of my 97. Last gun used last shot fired, and did not leave my hands.

 

I do read the rules frequently, but I guess I need these ole eyes checked for reading comprehension

 

I guess I'll either turn in my orange pin, or sign up for the next RO II refresher course.

I think that rule has been in the books for quite some time now...

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I think that rule has been in the books for quite some time now...

 

 

Interested in how long...

 

I know this now changes how, and what I do as a routine when showing up to the ULT if long gun is last used.

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if you removed the hull before setting it down and it was the last firearm used, no call....

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Also suggest getting that shotgun repaired so that it functions as intended if this is a regular occurrence.

 

...OR...

 

make sure that the last empty is ejected BEFORE taking it off-shoulder (or beginning to set it down).

 

 

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Also suggest getting that shotgun repaired so that it functions as intended if this is a regular occurrence.

 

...OR...

 

make sure that the last empty is ejected BEFORE taking it off-shoulder (or beginning to set it down).

 

 

Not a regular occurrence, and still don't know how the hull stayed in there let alone how it got in there backwards. Yes the ULT saw it to.

 

Thanks PWB for all you do. Maybe someday I can grow up to be like you.

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I sed oops!!!!! and dint go back and cover my tracks eethur! :P:P

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so in reading PWB's link is the correct call a P for using illegally acquired ammo since the extra round was indeed fired?

 

 

 

The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e. NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) will be a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES.

NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time.

 

 

PWB would the illegally acquired ammo hitting the target also score as a miss even though the shooter had hit the 10 required targets previously?

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Any target hit with an illegally acquired round is a Miss in addition to the P for using this illegally acquired round (SHB item 33 page 25 and RO1 item 33 page 20).

So if you are Lucky to miss the target with this round it is not counted as a miss.

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PWB would the illegally acquired ammo hitting the target also score as a miss even though the shooter had hit the 10 required targets previously?

 

NO...the shooter would only get the "P" in that case.

The miss would only be applied if the shooter ejected a round and used the pre-loaded round instead of reloading to replace the one that was ejected.

REF: page 2

 

Can't get any more misses than the number of rounds required to complete the stage requirements; in this case a possible total of TEN, no matter how many additional rounds were actually fired.

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Thanks for this clarification PWB

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