Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I recently acquired a CPA Stevens 44 1/2 rifle in 38 55 and I'm wondering if it is allowed for long range matches. This rifle is an exact copy of the original Stevens 44 1/2 except the frame is slightly wider to accommodate larger cartridges such as the 45 70. Most of the parts are interchangeable with the original Stevens 44 1/2. The handbook says: "Single Shot and Buffalo Single Shot firearms must be originals or replicas of single shot rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899. All rifles MUST have exposed hammers." The rifle has an exposed hammer but it was manufactured by Stevens from 1902 until 1916. It is a falling block action very similar to the Winchester 1885. There is nothing about the design of this rifle that is an advancement in technology from the 1885. It 's just another falling block single shot like many other firearms of the late 1800's. I'm wondering since the handbook specifies the firearms must be manufactured "approximately" from 1860 to 1899 if this rifle is allowed in long range matches even though it was first manufactured in 1902. Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 A strict reading of the rules would say no. However, certain guns that were first made well after the period but what I call "in the spirit" of the way guns were made back in the day are allowed. For example: Ruger pistols and Henry Big Boy rifles are okay, even though they are 20th century designs. Certain 20th century pocket pistols that are more accurately decendants of 19th century ones than true of the period pistols are commonly used. I have a WW Greener single shot police shotgun that I use on occasion. It is also a 20th century development, but it is built ont he much older Martini-Henry rifle action, and no one has ever said to me that it's not okay. So, I would guess that for your Stevens, a good bet would be, "A definate maybe." Post some pics of what it looks like. I'd venture to guess that upon looking at it, it'd probably be deemed okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Here's a picture of a rifle very similar to mine. Only basic difference is mine doesn't have the prong style butt plate but rather a Neider (shotgun style) butt plate. The site won't let me post the image directly but here's a link to it. http://www.bigforkbuscaderos.com/stevens4412.jpg Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 In instances like this it is best to send a picture and a request for ruling to one of the members of the Competition Commitee. If you get a favorable ruling in writing carry it with you to all matches. I for one think it should be legal, as it is an outgrowth of earlier designs by Stevens, but I am not the one that can make that ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This action should be legal as CAS long range events, but I suppose some might say it isn't truly "of the period". It is certainly based on earlier designs. The real difference between the 44 and the 44 1/2 is the action of the block. on the 44 it pivoted and on the 44 1/2 it was a true falling block. As such it was much stronger. Due to the small diameter of the barrel threads it was not really designed for larger diameter cartridges such as the 45-70, but was designed for the higher pressures from smokeless powder. It would be legal at MY local matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Gus, the Stevens 44 1/2 (original including CPA replica) was first introduced by Stevens in 1903 - accordingly outside the 1899 period. The caliber is 100% legal and I'd bet if you asked the Match Director - he would allow you to use it And congratulations on your CPA. Paul & Gail, and Greg the machinist make fine rifles. Mine has 5 barrels, all with scopes ... Stevens 25-21, 32-40, 38-72, 40-65 and 45-70. Allows me to shoot in any Schuetzen or NRA iron sights or scope match discipline PS: If you want the best bullet for your 38-55, Accurate Mold has the clone of the old Ideal 375166 that I have shot extensively out to 500 meters with accuracy in my HiWall ... http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-320E-D.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 And congratulations on your CPA. Paul & Gail, and Greg the machinist make fine rifles. Mine has 5 barrels, all with scopes ... Stevens 25-21, 32-40, 38-72, 40-65 and 45-70. Allows me to shoot in any Schuetzen or NRA iron sights or scope match discipline PS: If you want the best bullet for your 38-55, Accurate Mold has the clone of the old Ideal 375166 that I have shot extensively out to 500 meters with accuracy in my HiWall ... http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-320E-D.png I've had my rifle about a month and have spent most of that time shaping and finishing the stock and forearm. The Black Walnut I used is crotch grain coming off our family farm in Iowa. Right now I have two barrels, one is 32 20 with a .308 bore chambered for breech seating of the bullet. The other is the 38 55 which is chambered for fixed ammo. I've fired about 50 rounds thru the 38 55 and with just preliminary loads it shows real promise. Right now I'm shooting a 360 grain bullet out of a mold by Dave Farmer of Colorado Shooters Supply. I have several of his molds including a 180 grain .308 bullet I'll use for breech seating. Both barrels have a 1/12 twist. I'm planning on returning the action to them next winter for another barrel, haven't decided on what caliber yet but right now I'm leaning toward 25 20 WCF and perhaps 22 rimfire. Maybe later a 45 70 but I have a Shiloh Sharps with a heavy barrel in that caliber that shoots well. You're right in every way about the the people at CPA. I've corresponded with Gail and she has been very helpful and PATIENT with my as I worked out the details of what I wanted. The workmanship on the rifle is first rate in every way. Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I would not have a problem with that gun after seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have an original 44 1/2 that CPA reworked. Two barrels...38-55 and 22 Zipper. Fantastic rifle! BTW...don't say anything at a match and most folks think you are shooting a Winchester 1885........ (Wish we could post pictures...This forum they are using really sucks!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 as far as sidematches go i'm inclined to think you will get few complaints with this , i shoot a sharps 45/70 but only because that is what i have , i would gladly shoot along side you with that vintage piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Gus...In my opinion I doubt anyone shooting at our long range would object to you using it. But then I haven't shot long range in several years. Ask Crusty or Bill, I bet they'd say use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 H&R Buffalo classic…….SASS legal………….'nuff said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 H&R Buffalo classic…….SASS legal………….'nuff said? Stole my thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 H&R Buffalo classic…….SASS legal………….'nuff said? I had this rifle in mind when I first posted the question. While there were break open single shots in the 1860 to 1899 era this was not one of them. From that I had assumed any single shot with an exposed hammer and similar in design to what was produced in that era would be ok but I thought I should check. I wonder why only single shots with exposed hammers are allowed. The Sharps Borchardt, one of the best single shots of that era, is excluded because it does not have an exposed hammer even though it was made from 1877 to 1881 when Sharps went out of business. Same thing with some models of Martinis. Anyone know why hammerless single shots of the era are excluded? Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Faster lock time, less time for gun to move between the pulling of the trigger and the firing of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Faster lock time, less time for gun to move between the pulling of the trigger and the firing of the gun. Interesting. So I assume it is felt those using these types of rifles have an unfair advantage? SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Anyone know why hammerless single shots of the era are excluded? Same reason that the Winchester 95 and Savage 99 are not allowed for long range rifle caliber repeaters. The Wild Bunch said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dakota Clay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sounds a lot like the Ruger Vaqueros... Looks right, action is right, but they weren't produced during the period, and aren't actually reproductions thereof. And of course, XXX is a Buffalo Classic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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