Most Wanted Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There was a thread a while back about the vendors at shoots. By a large margin shooters want vendors at shoots and don't think they should have to pay to be there. They provide a service and we are greatful. But don't turn that around on us and take something else away. I know a few will say they have to charge vendors but that is just not true. Plenty of shoots don't. And if you "really must charge" vendors then make it like a tax. A small percentage of what's sold not just some figure for sq footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There was a thread a while back about the vendors at shoots. By a large margin shooters want vendors at shoots and don't think they should have to pay to be there. They provide a service and we are greatful. But don't turn that around on us and take something else away. I know a few will say they have to charge vendors but that is just not true. Plenty of shoots don't. And if you "really must charge" vendors then make it like a tax. A small percentage of what's sold not just some figure for sq footage. We were...or at least I was, talking about Winter Range. They do have a fee for Vendors as far as I know. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 We were...or at least I was, talking about Winter Range. They do have a fee for Vendors as far as I know. Phantom I believe you are correct that they do charge. That's my point why it's a problem at WR. They are paying to sell thier products and shooters are selling for free at a swap meet. If they didn't charge vendors I think they would have little to say. So I believe the powers that be at WR made a money based decision. Which is thier right. But as it has been pointed out the shooter is the customer and every business should try to keep thier customers happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hi Folks, First, I assure you I would never sell socks or undies at a swap meet, Snakebite. It is my understanding that some venues like WR, 5 Dogs, The Cowboys, and the SASS Convention must make money wherever they can due to the price the property owner charges them. So, things may not be as simple as they appear. I have heard, at one match, vendors complained about a swap meet. Another match, vendors demanded a lunch break during the match. That second one is a deal breaker for me. I won't return to a match that imposes a lunch break during shooting. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Shooter Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Speaking for The Cowboys we charge our Great Vendors a small clean up fee. It's either $20 or $25. We ask them to try and donate a prize of some kind. We have a swap meet at our matches. It's a great place to get unique items and items that are no longer available through our vendors. It's also one more chance to have more fun and swap stories with our friends. It's nice to have a little more to do at our big matches. I've seen our vendors shopping at our swap meet. To respond to another remark from Allie Mo. The Cowboys take a lunch break at there match. For her to say she won't shoot a match because they stop for lunch sounds a little well let's use the word silly. Our lunch break has nothing to do with our vendors. We found that people usually some of our older shooters and some shooters with some health issues feel pressured to keep helping there posse work. Even when they need to eat or just when they need a break. Sometimes it's hot or cold or your just hung over and need a break. Some of us don't like to stop for lunch, but it's better then someone not being able to finish there day of shooting that they paid for or God for bid something worse happen. I'm sure we've all been to matches where someone has collapsed for one reason or another. Hope to see you all on the range with or without Swap Meet or a Lunch. Link to comment
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Dam'd if ya do, Dam'd if ya don't Vendors upset if there's a swap meet Shooters upset if there isn't I personally am going to try and sell a few guns at Fire & Ice the weekend before WR (if they'll let me) and rent an extra guncart from Cactus Chris to display a few 97's and maybe a Browning. Maybe a few Rugers in .45 and a Marlin 357. I promise I'll hide from any Vendors I see with a lynch mob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Speaking for The Cowboys we charge our Great Vendors a small clean up fee. It's either $20 or $25. We ask them to try and donate a prize of some kind. We have a swap meet at our matches. It's a great place to get unique items and items that are no longer available through our vendors. It's also one more chance to have more fun and swap stories with our friends. It's nice to have a little more to do at our big matches. I've seen our vendors shopping at our swap meet. To respond to another remark from Allie Mo. The Cowboys take a lunch break at there match. For her to say she won't shoot a match because they stop for lunch sounds a little well let's use the word silly. Our lunch break has nothing to do with our vendors. We found that people usually some of our older shooters and some shooters with some health issues feel pressured to keep helping there posse work. Even when they need to eat or just when they need a break. Sometimes it's hot or cold or your just hung over and need a break. Some of us don't like to stop for lunch, but it's better then someone not being able to finish there day of shooting that they paid for or God for bid something worse happen. I'm sure we've all been to matches where someone has collapsed for one reason or another. Hope to see you all on the range with or without Swap Meet or a Lunch. Hello Bull Shooterr, Excuse me; but, I wouldn't call your opinions "silly." We all have opinions. They aren't necessarily the same. I wrote that the Vendors (specifically Food Vendors) insisted on a lunch break as that was what I was told. Now that you brought up the venue where that happened and called my opinion silly, I feel more comfortable in providing details that made it a deal breaker for me. My posse finished their third stage at 11:00 and we were not allowed to resume shooting until 1:00. To me, that was extreme. I'll let folks make their own decisions about whether that is acceptable to them or not. If they disagree with me, I will not insult them. I'm sure they will have fun at your match. I did. I also did very well at the swap meet. One of the vendors even let me leave my rack in her tent the entire weekend. We are adults or shoot with adults and are capable of taking snacks if we think we need them. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment
Most Wanted Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. The average posse is gonna take 30-40 min to shoot . If you cant get something to eat and get enough rest in that amount of time this game is probably already pushing your limits . I cannot stand stopping for lunch . Unfortunately the clubs in my area usually stop . We took a poll last year out of curiosity and found that 2 out of 40 wanted to break for lunch . Link to comment
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. 2 hour lunch break? No thanks. Fillmore Link to comment
Grizzly Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Never been to a match that stopped for lunch, don't reckon I'd like it at all. Plenty of time to visit the food vendors before or after, don't know that I would in the middle even if there was a formal lunch break. Link to comment
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I believe you are correct that they do charge. That's my point why it's a problem at WR. They are paying to sell thier products and shooters are selling for free at a swap meet. If they didn't charge vendors I think they would have little to say. So I believe the powers that be at WR made a money based decision. Which is thier right. But as it has been pointed out the shooter is the customer and every business should try to keep thier customers happy. It would nice on some of these threads if people actually knew the facts. Winter Range pays a LOT of attention to what the shooters want or don't want. Our goal is to have the best shooting experience possible. At a multi-day match the vendors are a material part of that experience. We have worked hard and have managed for the past several years to have the largest group of vendors at any cowboy action event. As a consequence, while we listen to what the shooter's want for the shooting part of the match, we also listen to what the vendors want at the vending portion of the match. Many vendors come a LONG way to get to Winter Range and spend a lot of money on fuel, lodging and food. There are fees for vendor spaces. This fee is charged by the Ben Avery Shooting Facitlity. There is a cost for tents as most vendors choose to rent tents rather than bring their own. There is a charge for electricity as Ben Avery bascially has no electricity in the vendor area. Just a few low amperage lines that run the lights under the shooting postion covers. So, Winter Range has to pay to have two 80KW generators (which require diesel fuel to be delivered during the match) brought out and has to pay to have trenches dug and power delivered to the vendors. The vendors have to pay for their proportionate share of these costs. Guys and Gals, nothing is free. The swap meet was a two or at max three year experiment. It was not a longstanding tradition. We read ALL the shooter comments the day after Winter Range. We also read ALL the comments supplied by the vendors. We balance competing interests as best we can. Remember, tell us what you think on the shooter comments card!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes Larson I was generalizing a bit . You forgot to also high light " Which is their right " . With that said if a vendor shows and doesn't need electric and doesn't need a tent etc. etc. and only needs a place to set up is there still a charge ? If the answer is still yes then I had all the facts I needed . If the answer is no then I apologize . Been to WR and had a great time and all the vendors was a big part of that . I guess the question is would you have lost some vendors if you kept the swap meet ? Will you lose some shooters because you didn't ? Maybe yes , maybe no but probably a wash . So benefit should go to the shooter / customer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Diamond, SASS #61820L Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So, then is the Vendor not a customer? Winter Range is a non profit organization. No members of Winter Range receive any monetary compensation for all of the hours, weeks, months of work to put on one of the greatest events for all of the Cowboys including our beloved Vendors. Any major match would be missing a lot of ambience without our very important Vendors. Winter Range is sold out again for the I believe the fourth year in a row. We must be doing something right. We take all of the comments made by our participants, shooters/vendors/sponsors/visitors, to heart and try to improve this event every year based on feedback received. The situation is kind of a catch 22 scenario. Without the shooters there are no Vendors. Without the Vendors, the shooter count drops and the ambience may not be as much fun. Each registered participant can always put a sign on their gun cart listing whatever they might have for sale. This was always done in the past and can continue to be done in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I personally would trade numbers of vendors for a swap meet any day. If someone has a large number of guns to sell, perhaps becoming a WR vendor (or share a vendor tent) or attending a gun show would be a better venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes Larson I was generalizing a bit . You forgot to also high light " Which is their right " . With that said if a vendor shows and doesn't need electric and doesn't need a tent etc. etc. and only needs a place to set up is there still a charge ? If the answer is still yes then I had all the facts I needed . If the answer is no then I apologize . Been to WR and had a great time and all the vendors was a big part of that . I guess the question is would you have lost some vendors if you kept the swap meet ? Will you lose some shooters because you didn't ? Maybe yes , maybe no but probably a wash . So benefit should go to the shooter / customer . Not exactly sure what you are asking about. Everyone that vends at the Ben Avery Shooting Range has to pay fees. Those fees are a requirement of the State of Arizona, Department of Game and Fish, Ben Avery Shooting Facility. Winter Range also pays hefty fees to Ben Avery to use the shooting facilities. Like I said, nothing is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 A: I stated the vendors pay to sell and the shooters didn't . You confirmed . B: I stated that if the vendors didn't pay they would have less to say . We can agree to disagree on that . C: I said it was your right to charge . No problem . I would like vendors to pay less if they use less . Most shoots see it that way but maybe you don't agree with that . See C . Maybe we should let this go . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hello Bull Shooterr, Excuse me; but, I wouldn't call your opinions "silly." We all have opinions. They aren't necessarily the same. I wrote that the Vendors (specifically Food Vendors) insisted on a lunch break as that was what I was told. Now that you brought up the venue where that happened and called my opinion silly, I feel more comfortable in providing details that made it a deal breaker for me. My posse finished their third stage at 11:00 and we were not allowed to resume shooting until 1:00. To me, that was extreme. I'll let folks make their own decisions about whether that is acceptable to them or not. If they disagree with me, I will not insult them. I'm sure they will have fun at your match. I did. I also did very well at the swap meet. One of the vendors even let me leave my rack in her tent the entire weekend. We are adults or shoot with adults and are capable of taking snacks if we think we need them. Regards, Allie Mo It would be nice if people would either fact check their assumptions or just keep them to themselves. Particularly when they are speaking on a subject that they obviously know little to nothing about. You might think that a forum moderator might think twice before spreading gossip about a club which could potentially be detrimental to the club. For the record at the match which you attended in 2012 at The Cowboys the vendors had absolutely no say in when or for how long we take a lunch break. That lunch was not intended to be that long. The stages were written by a different match director for that match and seemed to have flowed more smoothly than they had in the past. The posses finished up a little early and some had left before we realized what happened there is no way to change the start time for the after lunch stages when you cant notify people who left the range for lunch. We were left with no option but to stick to the schedule as printed at that point. I am sorry if that was an inconvenience to you and I assure you the lunch breaks now are much shorter. Link to comment
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. The Cowboys take lunch breaks now???? Wow... Link to comment
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. It would be nice if people would either fact check their assumptions or just keep them to themselves. Particularly when they are speaking on a subject that they obviously know little to nothing about. You might think that a forum moderator might think twice before spreading gossip about a club which could potentially be detrimental to the club. For the record at the match which you attended in 2012 at The Cowboys the vendors had absolutely no say in when or for how long we take a lunch break. That lunch was not intended to be that long. The stages were written by a different match director for that match and seemed to have flowed more smoothly than they had in the past. The posses finished up a little early and some had left before we realized what happened there is no way to change the start time for the after lunch stages when you cant notify people who left the range for lunch. We were left with no option but to stick to the schedule as printed at that point. I am sorry if that was an inconvenience to you and I assure you the lunch breaks now are much shorter. I did not name club names in the lunch thing. The club VP did. I would have not elaborated had he not insulted my opinion about lunch breaks. The same goes for you. Not spreading gossip here. If the vendors had no say, my posse was misinformed. Other members of our posse heard the same thing. I consider an hour and 10 a little early, two hours extreme. An apology at awards would have gone a long way. Link to comment
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. It would be nice if people would either fact check their assumptions or just keep them to themselves. Particularly when they are speaking on a subject that they obviously know little to nothing about. You might think that a forum moderator might think twice before spreading gossip about a club which could potentially be detrimental to the club. For the record at the match which you attended in 2012 at The Cowboys the vendors had absolutely no say in when or for how long we take a lunch break. That lunch was not intended to be that long. The stages were written by a different match director for that match and seemed to have flowed more smoothly than they had in the past. The posses finished up a little early and some had left before we realized what happened there is no way to change the start time for the after lunch stages when you cant notify people who left the range for lunch. We were left with no option but to stick to the schedule as printed at that point. I am sorry if that was an inconvenience to you and I assure you the lunch breaks now are much shorter. My wife and I were also at the event AM speaks of. She made NO ASSUMPTION! My wife and I were with her(we were on the same posse)when she was told, of what she states. Perhaps, YOU-should take your own advice, about ck'n facts before you post! BTW-Your clubs VP's post, is how the forum learned of the Cowboys involvement by name. It wasn't from Allie Mo. Carry on, LG Link to comment
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given What the %@#%$^ does this have to do with no swap meet at WR? Hi Jack Hi Jack Hi Jack Link to comment
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given What the %@#%$^ does this have to do with no swap meet at WR? Hi Jack Hi Jack Hi Jack What-This your 'first-day'? LG Link to comment
Bull Shooter Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. That is correct I am the VP and even though it is not my favorite thing we take a lunch. I would never try to hide that fact. So I have no problem with it and I don't need to Pretend she wasn't talking about my club, but that is where the truth stops. We do not take a lunch because the vendors ever told us to. Even though I'm sure they like it , but that is where it stops. We do not charge our vendors a fee for vending. Our vendors haven't tried to dictate what we do at our match. We have some great vendors and we do have a little swap meet at our matches. It's a lot of fun. I'll miss the swap meet at WR, but I'm sure they have a great reason for not doing it. They run an amazing match with great vendors. Link to comment
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. That is correct I am the VP and even though it is not my favorite thing we take a lunch. I would never try to hide that fact. So I have no problem with it and I don't need to Pretend she wasn't talking about my club, but that is where the truth stops. We do not take a lunch because the vendors ever told us to. Even though I'm sure they like it , but that is where it stops. We do not charge our vendors a fee for vending. Our vendors haven't tried to dictate what we do at our match. We have some great vendors and we do have a little swap meet at our matches. It's a lot of fun. I'll miss the swap meet at WR, but I'm sure they have a great reason for not doing it. They run an amazing match with great vendors. What you are, SAY'N NOW-And what we were, TOLD THEN. Are not the same. This is now, FACT We were also told, that we, as an entire posse. Would EACH receive a SDQ. If, anyone on our posse started shooting before the scheduled start time. After the very extended and mandatory lunch break. LG Link to comment
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - Captain Jake request. Whew! Sorry Mike. Let's get back on topic - Winter Range. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, February 13, 2014 - No reason given Whew! Sorry Mike. Let's get back on topic - Winter Range. Regards, Allie Mo Agree-------- LG Link to comment
Aspen Filly 50535 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm a vendor and a shooter, have been for many years! Only beef I had with the swap meet was the year they said only shooters could put stuff in the swap meet...well I'm both, what catagory do I fall into. I pay the vending fee and the shooting fee. Also You will always get a split of vendors who don't care and vendors who don't want it, but don't just lump them all together and blame all for the swap meets demise this year. Like slick I've bought stuff in there every year, maybe appease the squeaky wheel vendors by charging a fee to vend at the swap meet, say 25.00 and all proceeds go to the SASS Scholarship Fund. Just an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothill Bandit, SASS# 48598 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 maybe appease the squeaky wheel vendors by charging a fee to vend at the swap meet, say 25.00 and all proceeds go to the SASS Scholarship Fund. Just an idea! +1 Not a bad idea. Hey Aspen Filly, I sure do like that '73 side plate you did for me last year at WR. Thanks again. Boothill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspen Filly 50535 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks boothill glad your enjoying!! And thanks for the +1!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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