Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Greetings, First time on the forum here, enjoyed reading it a bunch, but it is time for a question. My daughter will be 8 soon, and wants to participate in CAS. We have spent time with a friend of ours who was gracious to have us try different guns. She is shooting the 38s just fine, handles her Browning 22 well, is accurate but most importantly safe. I have been gathering her own equipment, but unsure about a shotgun. I have had several shooters recommend a SxS 410. Is this the way to go for her? if so Which gun? Any other input is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrimstoneJerome Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I shoot with a little girl in Durango that runs a 97. IMHO there is less felt recoil with a 97, and even though it is a 12 gauge a featherlight or a light reload is very tame. Good luck Brim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 My daughter, Hotshot Harley, is 8 and just starting shooting the shotgun this year. We started her with a single shot 410, but quickly moved to a double barrel...12ga. If you reload, you can load a shell that she can handle. The loads we are using are actually easier on her than the factory 410 rounds are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appaloosa Amy, #63949, CT Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 My daughter started at age 10 with a 410 but it still had what I thought was quite a bit of recoil. She switched to a Stoeger side by side coach gun by age 12 and shot AA Featherlites and she still shoots it today at 17. I personally think that gun has more recoil than I would want mainly because it is light but Snazzy doesn't seem to notice. A 97 pump is a heavier gun and has less recoil so that is the trade off...light gun more recoil...heavier gun less recoil. Winchester AA Featherlites is the way to go for ammo with either shotgun. Good Luck! AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 410 shells are twice the price(if not more)than any other common SG ammo LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 My grandson shoots a 410 single trigger S X S that Johnny Meadows slicked up.I load the aa hulls and also load 444 cases so he can have brass shot shells.He love his S X S.He just turned 10 and is small for his age.He shoots Pjrs in 38 slicked by Cody and he has a henry 22 with a shortened stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great information, thank you. She is 8, tall, 65 pnds. I have hesitated about the 410 for many reasons, most stated above. I think I will take her out with some featherlites or light reloads and have her shoot the 97, and will get my hands on a SxS as well. Interesting no one mentioned a 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrimstoneJerome Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great information, thank you. She is 8, tall, 65 pnds. I have hesitated about the 410 for many reasons, most stated above. I think I will take her out with some featherlites or light reloads and have her shoot the 97, and will get my hands on a SxS as well. Interesting no one mentioned a 20. I started as a slender 11 year old and the 20 sxs thumped way harder than a 12. My understanding the 12 and 20 have similar energy but recoil is felt less because it has more room to spread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 There's a good reason no one mentioned a 20 gauge - they kick like mules! About the same weight as a 410, but a more powerful shell (in factory loading). The down-loaded 12's are still her best bet, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Bandit Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Whatever you wind up with..cut the stock down to fit her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Whatever you wind up with..cut the stock down to fit her Plus 1000 on what Bandit said. Along with that, be sure that when the stock is cut down that you increase the pitch to a more positive angle. If the toe of the stock is jutting back into her chest, it's going to hurt. In our game, we don't do much shooting with the gun elevated. We mostly shoot at a downward angle. If the toe of the stock is jutting back into the chest, it's simply going to be very uncomfortable. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great advice, I am planning on getting the stock down to 12".......I am contemplating having her try mom's 97 with the old stock cut to 12" to try some light 12ga reloads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 A 12 ga with 1/2 oz reloads are the way to go. (A Lee Load All doesn't cost much) It can grow with her as she develops. Whatever you decide, please have it fitted to her. It is difficult to learn to shoot well if you have to lean way back and then have the thing go bang! Remember, she doesn't have to knock down the shotgun targets, just hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 A 12 ga with 1/2 oz reloads are the way to go. (A Lee Load All doesn't cost much) It can grow with her as she develops. Whatever you decide, please have it fitted to her. It is difficult to learn to shoot well if you have to lean way back and then have the thing go bang! Remember, she doesn't have to knock down the shotgun targets, just hit them. Makes sense, I do not want to scare her off. A month ago she wanted to shoot her mother's trap gun, it hit her hard, but she did not want to give up. 13" length of pull is still too long, I need to cut whatever gun down to 12. I know they make 7/8 wads , but where can I find 1/2 oz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I don't know about half ounce but there are shot bars and wads for three-quarter ounce loads. A tad too light for my tastes but Hollifer A. Dollar loaded some up for my wife; she liked them and knocked down 100% of her shotgun targets that day using them. I bought a new stock for my '97 and cut it down to a LOP just under 12 inches. It will make a really good ladies' or youth shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartwheel, SASS# 57342 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 with proper instruction and a gun that is properly fitted (shortened stock) she should have no problem shooting a 12G with feather lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great, Will start looking for a 12ga SxS, in the mean time, bushings for my reloader for a light load...got work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If money is a issue (and when isn't it) get a H&R single shot 12 ga. Depending on your area you may be able to pick one up for under $100.00. Cut the stock down to fit her, lobbed some off the barrel for better balance and add Winchester Featherlites. As she grows you can cheaply buy a larger stock or resale it for a new junior shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great advice, I am planning on getting the stock down to 12".......I am contemplating having her try mom's 97 with the old stock cut to 12" to try some light 12ga reloads.... There ya go. Short length of pull + negative toe angle + quality recoil pad + light loads = happy daughter Plus, she will be able to use the gun for a long time unlike a .410 that you would eventually have to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I've posted this about a million times, but here is Dahlin' at 72 lbs. shooting my 97 (12.75" LOP.) A bit later I cut one to 10.5" LOP for her. I think you'll find 12" a bit long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Makes sense, I do not want to scare her off. A month ago she wanted to shoot her mother's trap gun, it hit her hard, but she did not want to give up. 13" length of pull is still too long, I need to cut whatever gun down to 12. I know they make 7/8 wads , but where can I find 1/2 oz? You use a 7/8 wad with a filler wad at the bottom. I use the Winchester AA lite powder. The 7/8 once load is pretty light as it is. The formula is on the label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Wow, good little shooter she is, I can see where the LOP is working for her, still thumping her pretty hard that 12ga. Nice job however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You use a 7/8 wad with a filler wad at the bottom. I use the Winchester AA lite powder. The 7/8 once load is pretty light as it is. The formula is on the label. Many thanks Ace, going to go to sportsmans to look for the appropriate MEC bushings for my loader today....going to try the recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fastarget, I have two tips to add to the advice of adjusting the LOP. It is much easier to shoot a gun with too short of a stock than too long. Many savvy adult shooters are shooting guns with shorter than standard LOP. Before you make the cut drill two small diameter holes into the stock as if you are making new butt plate screw holes. If you are going to cut off two inches drill into the stock at least two and a quarter inches. Then as she grows or you decide to sell the gun, you can slip the appropriate sized dowel rod into the holes and reattach the cut off portion with almost no visible line. Hope this helps, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Bandit Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fastarget, I have two tips to add to the advice of adjusting the LOP. It is much easier to shoot a gun with too short of a stock than too long. Many savvy adult shooters are shooting guns with shorter than standard LOP. Before you make the cut drill two small diameter holes into the stock as if you are making new butt plate screw holes. If you are going to cut off two inches drill into the stock at least two and a quarter inches. Then as she grows or you decide to sell the gun, you can slip the appropriate sized dowel rod into the holes and reattach the cut off portion with almost no visible line. Hope this helps, Smoke Took the words right out my mouth.......good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Harland Wolff, SASS #5019 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 All good answers; I load 10 gr Red Dot, W209 primer, gray wad w/ 7/8 oz #7 1/2 in AA 12 ga in a short stock '97 for my 8 year old daughter. It runs around 725 fps. She only weighs about 35 lbs and she handles it great. It's more about technique than strength! Good luck! HW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Great information, thank you. She is 8, tall, 65 pnds. I have hesitated about the 410 for many reasons, most stated above. I think I will take her out with some featherlites or light reloads and have her shoot the 97, and will get my hands on a SxS as well. Interesting no one mentioned a 20. 20 ga kicks like a mule. Bruised the heck out of my wife's shoulder, even with the lightest loads. Switched to 12 ga., using Winchester AA "Low Recoil, Low Noise" loads (aka "Featherlites") and a shotgun cut to fit her, and never looked back. Whatever shotgun you get, CUT IT TO FIT. Put on a recoil pad, but save the part you cut off. You can always reglue and recut as she grows. The SG will be ugly as all get out after she grows a bit, so buy a cheap one, and preferably one for which you can buy a replacement stock. Buena suerte, amigo eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Wow, good little shooter she is, I can see where the LOP is working for her, still thumping her pretty hard that 12ga. Nice job however. This was my shotgun which was too long for her. The shorter stock was a big improvement. Another suggestion: Have her to use both ear plugs and muffs in the beginning. It's the loud noise that scares new shooters. The challenge is to demonstrate that the bark is far worse than the bite. Although in the video it might appear that the gun is "thumping" her, the reality is it's nothing more that a firm push. When preparing her to shoot, I had her face me and I'd push her to demonstrate what she could anticipate. I also fired the gun without shouldering it (from the hip)...again to demonstrate that there is nothing to fear. I do recommend a good recoil pad primarily because it rounds the edges. I use a grind-to-fit Limbsaver. Of course, have her to hold the gun firmly to her shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginderella (SASS # 80446) Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I've posted this about a million times, but here is Dahlin' at 72 lbs. shooting my 97 (12.75" LOP.) A bit later I cut one to 10.5" LOP for her. I think you'll find 12" a bit long. This was Dahlin's FIRST ever match. As her mom, let me add that she has NEVER been afraid of anything....... The shotgun didn't bother her at all! Also, she now has a shotgun belt that fits & doesn't wrap around her at least 3 times..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fastarget, I have two tips to add to the advice of adjusting the LOP. It is much easier to shoot a gun with too short of a stock than too long. Many savvy adult shooters are shooting guns with shorter than standard LOP. Before you make the cut drill two small diameter holes into the stock as if you are making new butt plate screw holes. If you are going to cut off two inches drill into the stock at least two and a quarter inches. Then as she grows or you decide to sell the gun, you can slip the appropriate sized dowel rod into the holes and reattach the cut off portion with almost no visible line. Hope this helps, Smoke Great advice thanks , I will do just that. Just to have some options, if the 97 does not work out for her or is too heavy, what else should I look at? I contemplated getting a coach gun in 12ga(short, less weight up front to balance, cost effective), will that now and as she grows? or would longer barrels work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Many shooters prefer longer barrels to help hold a double open, but I would think if the stock is cut to a 12" LOP or less any barrel length over 20" or maybe 22" is going to be very muzzle heavy, and unwielding. For our game if the barrel is legal(over 18") it should be good to go. Like the advice we give any new shooter, take her to matches have her try other junior's or ladies guns. I'm sure she will let you know what works or does not work for her. Good luck in your quest, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastarget Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Many shooters prefer longer barrels to help hold a double open, but I would think if the stock is cut to a 12" LOP or less any barrel length over 20" or maybe 22" is going to be very muzzle heavy, and unwielding. For our game if the barrel is legal(over 18") it should be good to go. Like the advice we give any new shooter, take her to matches have her try other junior's or ladies guns. I'm sure she will let you know what works or does not work for her. Good luck in your quest, Smoke Thanks Smoke, I have been taking her to the shoots, we have spent some time sizing up pistols and rifle, but have not found the perfect shotgun yet. At the matches here we have not seen many young shooters, we plan on going to another on the 17th of this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Many savvy adult shooters are shooting guns with shorter than standard LOP. Smoke +1 I discovered that I prefer a shorter LOP when I cut our Stoeger down for my wife. It made it much easier to manipulate and shoot with the shorter stock. I bought a Baikal for myself and used it for awhile with the longer LOP. Just last weekend, my wife shot her first match since January due to the birth of our son. I was checking her Stoeger out while getting the guns together and remembered how good it felt with the short LOP. I cut my Baikal down to match on Monday. If you have a stock '97, the LOP is probably way too long anyways. Those things had boat oars for buttstocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtack Henry Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Howdy, When I started my girls out in SASS (all them many years ago), I had them shoot a 12 gauge SXS with recoil pad and I loaded them up black powder loads...50gr of black powder and 1 oz of shot. They shot it all day long...way less kick than ANY factory load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Carefull with the black powder rounds. They will shoot much easier. More of a push than a punch when they light off. The down side is that she will start on the dark side. You will soon be loading up BP in her pistol and rifle rounds. You might put some lead shot in the but stock hole for a little added wieght to reduce recoil. Chancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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