Wanna fight?

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Guys after reading the Capt Baylor article in the latest Chronicle I took exception to the title Slim Jim being used for the holsters he wears. After a bit of arguing on a cowboy leather working forum several things seemed to unfold. No one seems to know of the term 'Slim Jim' being historical to the period of their popularity and there is no definitive definition as to what constitutes a Slim Jim. Anyone here know enough about the history of holsters to take a stand here, remember some author who wrote a book might have no more than an opinion unless he has something historical to reference.

 

My biggest dispute with the one in the Chronicle revolves around the fold over style belt loop. In my definition the fold over creates a skirt, no matter how small, while the true Slim Jim uses a separate strap of leather sewn or riveted, top and bottom, to the back of the holster to form the belt loop. Anyone want wade into this with an opinion or evidence to support your view? To the best of my knowledge this can not be accused of being a dead horse issue and will never arise to that status!

 

 

PS: Somewhat related, for the leather workers, or wannabes, it seems that holster maker to the stars, Will Ghormley is in the process of offering a new set of of patterns to Tandy for possible marketing. I think he is calling it a 1911 Centennial Pack and it is aimed at the Wild Bunch crowd. Most of the holster designs that will be offered in the pattern pack can be seen at the link below. The photos are of the holsters he made while doing the layout work.

 

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/SpringSale.html

[Goody, SASS #26190]

This would seem to indicate that neither loop is correct. In fact this site suggets a snap on the belt holster, appearently designed with B Western in mind.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chronillogicaldisorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/slimjim.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.chronillogicaldisorder.com/2011/05/macho-man-randy-savage-rip/&h=367&w=345&sz=25&tbnid=hfos2j9ay7NcyM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=92&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsnap%2Binto%2Ba%2Bslim%2Bjim%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=snap+into+a+slim+jim&docid=MOLneVFASpPNSM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sFmtToC7Dom2sQKC6vD2Dg&sqi=2&ved=0CFUQ9QEwCQ&dur=4985

[Cypress Sun]

Hey Bob, everyone knows that the term "Slim Jim" has different meanings. For instance, it can refer to a nutritious round edible stick containing some type of meat. It also refers to a metal bar specifically designed for breaking into automobliles. Of course, neither of these items have anything to do with CAS, but that's a different fight.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

Now this is something that has really been heavy on my mind for a long time. You just don't know what a relief it will be to get it all cleared up!

 

Drifter

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I'd say a fold-over flap cut in such a way that the back side is no wider than the bucket, only a narrow bit no wider than the trigger guard portion of the holster and not visible on the top strap side, just long enough to allow sewing to the back of the holster body qualifies.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Well after you clear up this mystery I want to know where and how the terms "Mexican Loop" and "Texas Jock Strap" got started.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

AH, then you would call a Duke holster a Slim Jim if the bottom attached to the holsters body at the back? A quick look at many web sites will show that a lot of modern style competition holsters now use no loop encircling the holsters body but frequently just rivet into the layers of leather and possibly even metal skeletons of the holster body. We know that when the leather folds over at the top, this traditionally becomes what is referred to as a skirted holster. Many holster have what is frequently referred to as a full or half skirt, at what point do we stop calling it a skirt? How do we classify the traditional Duke holster, is it a Slim Jim or a Mexican loop? I personally prefer a strict interpretation, just as there is one specific feature that separates the traditional Cheyenne holster from the Mexican Loop. For me this separator would be the attached belt loop, much akin to that used on many knife sheaths. Gotta go, the wife calls but I will try to do some pictures later.

[Utah Bob #35998]

If "there is no definitive definition as to what constitutes a Slim Jim", then how can you say "the true Slim Jim uses a separate strap of leather sewn or riveted, top and bottom"

[Trailrider #896]

Howdy, Pards,

 

It all depends on what your definition of the word "is" is! Or, as the Queen of Hearts said to Alice, "The definition of a word is what I say it is!"

 

My definition of a "slim jim" holster is one that fairly closely follows the contour of the outline of the gun for which it was intended, with the belt loop NOT being visible from the front regardless of how it is attached, and NO skirt or belly band. Such holsters might or might not have flaps, either full or partial. In point of fact, many of the civilian slim jim holsters were derrived or copied from the military holsters of the time. While the U.S. Army holsters were almost universally worn butt-forward on the right side, civilian slim jims, whether with or without a flap, tended to be, but were not universally of right-hand, butt rear style, although they might be worn on the left side, butt forward. It should be noted that Federal holsters evolved somewhat during the Civil War from close-contoured bodies that fit only a single gun model, to by 1863 a more general contour of the main seam, permitting use with either the M1860 Colt's Army or the New Model Army (what we call the 1858...which is wrong) Remington. Fortuitously, the same holsters turned out to handle the Colt's Single Action Army Revolver of 1873, ala "The strap pistol" for its topstrap frame.

 

Frankly, I don't think it is all worth arguing about.

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

AHHH but Bob I do not say it is the only true Slim Jim but rather my idea as to what should constitute a less debatable definition. When we have a proper definition it should be capable of leaving no question as to the style holster being referred to. My interpretation simply concludes that a fold over loop at the rear constitutes a skirt, regardless of how 'mini' it gets. Arguments are welcome, with one caveat, after the smoke has cleared we all get to have a cold one in the nearest saloon! Kinda like the judge and two lawyers did after my last divorce. Guess who paid that tab?

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Funny how you get all definitive about the "true" Slim Jim and yet you call a single loop holster a "Duke" style without any qualms! The holster certainly existed before JW did.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Kinda a variant thing going here, I think of the Duke rig as just a late period Mexican Loop. Funny thing is that on the other forum that I mentioned previously, one of the holster makers there classes the Duke rig as a Slim Jim since it has no visible skirt. The style might have been around for years with very similar details BUT it truly got a title when John Wayne adopted it. Kinda like the popular 'Fairbanks' fighting knife, before he re-invented it, well, it was simply called a dagger! Some of the older guys might remember a hearing of a holster style called a Skin Tight or Missouri Skin Tight and the image that comes to my mind would be a Slim Jim moulded to fit the revolver it was made for, and its main-seam lines, very tightly. I am simply saying that the Slim Jim would be a style and this would not prevent variants on that style BUT the original should have some definitive feature(s) that separate it from the other major styles.