Another transition question

[Shooting Bull]

I shoot double duelist. This allows me a great deal of lattitude when deciding how best to shoot a stage. But I do have a question about transitioning from pistols to long guns. As of now I'll shoot my first pistol and then simultaneously holster than one and draw my second pistol. My first hand remains on the empty pistol until the second pistol is empty, then I simultaneously holster the second pistol and reach for whichever long gun is next. The question is, is this the best use of the free hand? Should I already have it on the long gun before emptying the second pistol?

 

When this first came to my mind I thought it was a no-brainer, of COURSE it should already be there. But I'm not so sure. The act of holstering the first pistol AND reaching for the long gun will take longer than drawing the second pistol. That means I'd be increasing the amount of time between the last shot from the first pistol and the first shot of the second pistol. Also, I think I might be trying to cram too may movements into too short a time period and thus increasing my chances of screwing EVERYTHING up.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Anvil Al #59168]

I shoot double duelist. This allows me a great deal of lattitude when deciding how best to shoot a stage. But I do have a question about transitioning from pistols to long guns. As of now I'll shoot my first pistol and then simultaneously holster than one and draw my second pistol. My first hand remains on the empty pistol until the second pistol is empty, then I simultaneously holster the second pistol and reach for whichever long gun is next. The question is, is this the best use of the free hand? Should I already have it on the long gun before emptying the second pistol?

 

When this first came to my mind I thought it was a no-brainer, of COURSE it should already be there. But I'm not so sure. The act of holstering the first pistol AND reaching for the long gun will take longer than drawing the second pistol. That means I'd be increasing the amount of time between the last shot from the first pistol and the first shot of the second pistol. Also, I think I might be trying to cram too may movements into too short a time period and thus increasing my chances of screwing EVERYTHING up.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

All I can tell you is this.

 

I get to shoot all the time with.

Nuttin Graceful. Many time World and National Champion Duelist.

T-Bone. Many time World and National Champion CC. Who has to shoot Duelist style.

Billy Boots. Many time World and National Champion FC Duelist Champion.

 

All 3 in that case will shoot the right pistol first. Pull left while holstering right.

And that right hand goes right to the long gun.

 

That is what they teach also. And it works.

They might even whack that right hand for not doing something.

As this is one way a duelist can help make up time on them two handers.

IF that hand is not shooting. It should be doing something else.

 

I try. But don't always get it done.

[Prof. Fuller Bullspit]

If you can have your hand on the third gun, without causing a safety problem, that is your best option.

 

As you holster the second empty pistol, be picking up the third gun (or grabbing shotgun shells, whichever is best).

 

Problems can arise if you are tall or the table is short. You can end up being bent over so much that you sweep the crowd as you holster the second pistol.

[Anvil Al #59168]

As far as on the SG. Going to the SG shells or the SG it's self.

 

I am right handed so will explain it that way.

 

If you go for your shells. That means you shoot your left gun first holster while pulling

the right and left hand goes on the shells.

But then you have to holster right gun. And then move your hand all the way forward and down for the SG.

That is a lot of movement for that hand.

 

Go the other way. Right gun first. Holster while pulling left gun. Right hand goes on SG.

When finished with left gun. SG is coming to shoulder at the same time left is going in holster.

Left gun is in the holster now.

 

And WHAT is the left hand passing on its way up anyway??? You got it. It passes you SG shells on it's way up

anyway. Just grab them on the way up.

No wasted movement at all.

 

 

At least that is how I see them do it. I try. Plan it before the beep. Then my head goes to jello and. Well.

 

 

P.S. I love talking Duelist transtion stuff.

[Doc Shapiro]

Anvil Al seems to have the right of it. Nuttin' and T Bone have that transition mastered.

[Shooting Bull]

As far as on the SG. Going to the SG shells or the SG it's self.

 

I am right handed so will explain it that way.

 

If you go for your shells. That means you shoot your left gun first holster while pulling

the right and left hand goes on the shells.

But then you have to holster right gun. And then move your hand all the way forward and down for the SG.

That is a lot of movement for that hand.

 

Go the other way. Right gun first. Holster while pulling left gun. Right hand goes on SG.

When finished with left gun. SG is coming to shoulder at the same time left is going in holster.

Left gun is in the holster now.

 

And WHAT is the left hand passing on its way up anyway??? You got it. It passes you SG shells on it's way up

anyway. Just grab them on the way up.

No wasted movement at all.

 

 

At least that is how I see them do it. I try. Plan it before the beep. Then my head goes to jello and. Well.

 

 

P.S. I love talking Duelist transtion stuff.

 

 

Yep, got that move down pat. Only thing I guess I need to work on is letting go of that first pistol and putting my hand on the long gun.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Philly,

 

ya gotta have faith in yeowndangself.

 

Take the good info above, lay out a plan for practicing those transitions, and get to work.

 

What we do is like a bank. If you don't put something into it, ya won't have anything to withdraw when the time comes.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

In every stage there are movements requiring fine motor skills and gross motor skills.

 

Pulling shotgun shells (and keeping them aligned if for a SxS or pulling four if for a 97) is a fine motor skill, which takes longer to do "properly" than a gross skill like picking up a shotgun.

 

If I was moving from pistols to rifle - then whichever hand will be picking up the rifle is the pistol I shoot first.

If I was moving from pistols to shotgun - then the opposite pistol would be shot first to facilitate the grabbing of shotgun shells.

 

The offhand should always be anchored on whatever the next item you wish to work with is, either your next pistol, your next load or your next gun.

A unintended consequence/ benefit of anchoring on the next gun (when a long gun) is that the table that the firearm is on can add stability to your shooting platform and aid with hits on target.

 

 

 

 

[Anvil Al #59168]

In every stage there are movements requiring fine motor skills and gross motor skills.

 

Pulling shotgun shells (and keeping them aligned if for a SxS or pulling four if for a 97) is a fine motor skill, which takes longer to do "properly" than a gross skill like picking up a shotgun.

 

 

 

Guess I am not smart enough to know all that.

But do know wasted motion when I see it. That time from holster to

moving hand to the SG and getting a hold of it. When all that could have already

been done. To me is wasted motion.

And being that that left hand is passing the SG shells anyway on the way up???

No wasted motion there. I can grab them shells out of a belt faster than

I can move my hand all the way from the holster to the gun and get it picked up.

And know those I talked about have spent hours, days, weeks, timing to see which way

is faster.

 

But glad the other works for you. I don't see how it could be faster then getting them

while your hand has to pass there anyway.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

All I can tell you is this.

 

I get to shoot all the time with.

Nuttin Graceful. Many time World and National Champion Duelist.

T-Bone. Many time World and National Champion CC. Who has to shoot Duelist style.

Billy Boots. Many time World and National Champion FC Duelist Champion.

 

All 3 in that case will shoot the right pistol first. Pull left while holstering right.

And that right hand goes right to the long gun.

 

That is what they teach also. And it works.

They might even whack that right hand for not doing something.

As this is one way a duelist can help make up time on them two handers.

IF that hand is not shooting. It should be doing something else.

 

I try. But don't always get it done.

Yep!!! I have cut at least 3-5 seconds a stage since T-Bone and Nuttin' taught me this, so has Al!!! We have practice sessions where we just practice transitions and they will swat the idle hand!!!

[Grizzly Dave]

I don't shoot double duelist often, most times it's two handed for me. Every now and then I do a stage DD just for fun. One time, if I recall correctly the pistols were staged on a bar, as I shot one I was grabbing the other, missed about every other shot. Why? Because every other time I've shot DD, the hand not shooting was anchored on my side, or my other pistol.

 

If I read what Al posted right, that's why Nuttin and Bone do it the way they do, and imagine they practice it that way no matter if the next gun is the long gun at the same position or not. Body position changes a lot. Get that consistent, and the rest would seem to fall into line.

 

But as Rance says, I'm just sittin here thinkin...

 

And as I say, I could be wrong.

 

Grizz

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Guess I am not smart enough to know all that.

 

Nothing to do with smart - everything to do with opinions.

[Shooting Bull]

Philly,

 

ya gotta have faith in yeowndangself.

 

Take the good info above, lay out a plan for practicing those transitions, and get to work.

 

 

You used the "P" word.

 

 

 

What we do is like a bank. If you don't put something into it, ya won't have anything to withdraw when the time comes.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

 

 

I wouldn't know anything about a bank...........................I'm married to Sour Kraut.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without somebody saying you should throw away that dang ole crossdraw rig and just shoot strong side. You're just taking something simple and making it complicated.

 

Seriously, it depends on the stage. If you can easily place your hand on the long gun while shooting a pistol, then do so as long as you can do so without changing your focus from the pistol. But if you would have to bend over and get out of a comfortable shooting stance that might slow you down or cause a miss with your pistol, then wait until you finish the pistol to go for the long gun.

[Shooting Bull]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without somebody saying you should throw away that dang ole crossdraw rig and just shoot strong side. You're just taking something simple and making it complicated.

 

One of us is in the wrong thread. I've never used a crossdraw holster.

 

Seriously, it depends on the stage. If you can easily place your hand on the long gun while shooting a pistol, then do so as long as you can do so without changing your focus from the pistol. But if you would have to bend over and get out of a comfortable shooting stance that might slow you down or cause a miss with your pistol, then wait until you finish the pistol to go for the long gun.

 

 

Yeah, that's the part that worries me the most about trying to grab the long gun with my free hand. I don't want to lose focus on shooting the second pistol and end up with a miss............or three.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Seriously, it depends on the stage. If you can easily place your hand on the long gun while shooting a pistol, then do so as long as you can do so without changing your focus from the pistol. But if you would have to bend over and get out of a comfortable shooting stance that might slow you down or cause a miss with your pistol, then wait until you finish the pistol to go for the long gun.

 

 

Yep. From shoeing horses so many years. I have a bad back, bad knees, I am old and fat.

That don't make bending and such easy.

I do it when I can. But just can't always get it done. Some of them tables are really short.

And I don't shoot good in a bad position. (don't shoot very good in a good positon either )

Because of the above. I am pretty much a straight up and down shooter. But try to do it when I can

without hurting myself.

[Shooting Bull]

Yep. From shoeing horses so many years. I have a bad back, bad knees, I am old and fat.

 

 

You got old and fat from shoeing horses???

 

 

Sure glad I did it the old fashioned way.