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It's time for a B-Western category rules revision


Sunset Slim SASS #46179

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Well, Jack at least you only have an opinion on a category you actually shoot and not on everything in the universe.........lol.

 

Nice...Concho Billy, I now have zero respect for you.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Nice...Concho Billy, I now have zero respect for you.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

:FlagAm

 

Hmmmmmm......my reply was to Indian Jack, but you took offense.......You don't know me so how could you possibly respect me or not.......but ok. I think Jack can have an opinion......he does not make many posts on here and he makes a valid point.......There is nothing wrong with the rules.......play with-in the rules and have fun......everyone is on a level playing field.......if a Marlin is faster, use one.......if your leather doesn't meet requirements, trade it or sell it and buy some that does......but don't expect the rules to change because you have the wrong gear or someone is faster........I think changing the rules isn't gonna change the finish order for most shooters and maybe the Marlin wasn't used in B-Western because the movie people didn't research the issue very well and the 92 was easy to get.......Happy Trails.

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I can see by some of the comments that a lot of "B" western knowledge is lacking, not SASS, but "B", and TV westerns, which is the "B" western category. Roy, not Gene, and a lot of 2 gun "B" western heroes did shoot with both hands and guns at same time, Roy, Sunset Carson, Lash Larue, Hoppy, Tex Ritter, etc. As to long guns, yes, the 92 was prevelant, as was the 94 in "B" westerns and some TV westerns. Not all "B" westerns were period, some were actually of the time period in the 20th Century making them period correct, even some "B" John Waynes were actually of the 1930 period, in which telephones, planes, and automobiles were used. Some "B" westerns were even patriotic using the WW2 era, espionage, spies, etc. as the bad guys. But 92s and 94s weren't the only long guns, Lorne Greene Bonanza used a 73, Hoppy films were filled with 73s, as were a lot of Gene Autry's, and Sunset Carson used a 73, early then a 92, and final film made one can see a Marlin. A Marlin was also used by Palladin. As to shotguns, one can only see doubles, never seen in any "B" westerns 97, nor 87s. Nor has there ever been a Burgess Rifle, if anything, a 73 should have been voted in, since many were in "B"s. I think when the Burgess was allowed, it was voted in to help sales, and voted by members who didn't care, or knew it was not a "B" western rifle.

As to pistols, just about anything can be found in "B" westerns, including adjustable sights, 1917s made to look Colt like, Colts made to look like Remingtons, etc. As to costuming, very rarely were they glittered shirted, or fancy, except at the final musical ending. Rex Allen, usually shown all spangled out in fancy shirts, never wore them in nhis pictures, rather they were publicity stunts, or costumes he wore at appearances. Toward the end of Roy and Genes pictures, they trended more to the jeans and chekered, or plain shirts, rather then the early fancy stiching on collars etc. MT

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+1 to what Marshal Troop said

B-Westerns were not very accurate as to what the real cowboys used. Not just their guns but other things. Jeans were not worn and neither were belts but that is what they wore in the 30's and 40's when B-Westerns were made. Do we even want to talk about the saddles they used? I am too young to remember the B-Western movies (except on DVD) but I was and still am a great fan of the TV Westerns...but watch Bonanza sometimes which was set right after the War Between the States (Not the Civil War...my grandmother would turn in her grave if she heard me use that term). On Bonanza they used 1873 SAA revolvers pisols, they had a gun rack of "Henry rifles" in the living room but if you look closer at those "henrys" they were 92 Winchesters with the front stcck removed, the receiver painted yellow or gold and a little flush fitting plug to fill in the space for the loading gate. In episodes of Rawhide they used Winchester 73s and Marlins interchangably. in one episode the bad guy was shooting at Gil Favor with a 73 winchester , the camera cuts away and then back to the bad guy who is now using a Marlin and then changes back to a 73 winchester for the final shots before he was shot himself. In the movie Firecreek with Jimmy Stewart he picks up a revolver which chearly has an ejector rod along the barrel. Jimmy pushes the cylinder release and swings out the cylinder to the left to check how many rounds are left and snaps shut the revolver. Heck..even Roy Rogers sidekick even drives a Jeep.

 

MY opinion is to leave the rules as they are.

the above tv and movie information is fact because I saw them.

 

and Concho Billy Thanks...but remember the acronym...PTB.

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+1 to what Marshal Troop said

B-Westerns were not very accurate as to what the real cowboys used. Not just their guns but other things. Jeans were not worn and neither were belts but that is what they wore in the 30's and 40's when B-Westerns were made. Do we even want to talk about the saddles they used? I am too young to remember the B-Western movies (except on DVD) but I was and still am a great fan of the TV Westerns...but watch Bonanza sometimes which was set right after the War Between the States (Not the Civil War...my grandmother would turn in her grave if she heard me use that term). On Bonanza they used 1873 SAA revolvers pisols, they had a gun rack of "Henry rifles" in the living room but if you look closer at those "henrys" they were 92 Winchesters with the front stcck removed, the receiver painted yellow or gold and a little flush fitting plug to fill in the space for the loading gate. In episodes of Rawhide they used Winchester 73s and Marlins interchangably. in one episode the bad guy was shooting at Gil Favor with a 73 winchester , the camera cuts away and then back to the bad guy who is now using a Marlin and then changes back to a 73 winchester for the final shots before he was shot himself. In the movie Firecreek with Jimmy Stewart he picks up a revolver which chearly has an ejector rod along the barrel. Jimmy pushes the cylinder release and swings out the cylinder to the left to check how many rounds are left and snaps shut the revolver. Heck..even Roy Rogers sidekick even drives a Jeep.

 

MY opinion is to leave the rules as they are.

the above tv and movie information is fact because I saw them.

 

and Concho Billy Thanks...but remember the acronym...PTB.

 

 

Hey Jack, I watched "Shadows of Tombstone" yesterday with Rex Allen and Slim Pickens.........classic.

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what were they shooting? besides bad guys

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what were they shooting? besides bad guys

 

Looks like SAA Colt pistols and hammerless double barrel shotguns.......didn't see the rifles......action moves too fast, but more shotguns than I have seen in any other B-Western.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

+1 to what Marshal Troop said

B-Westerns were not very accurate as to what the real cowboys used. Not just their guns but other things.

 

and Concho Billy Thanks...but remember the acronym...PTB.

 

B-Westerns were a "genre". Nothing to do with cowboyin as much as teaching right from wrong or some other "good" lesson where the bad guys lost. What is conveniently lost in all of this is that B-Westerns used "Winchesters". The public did not research lever guns because of a CAS hobby like we do. They all wanted a Winchester (I know Paladin wanted a Marlin, like I said 1 or 2 outta 100,000 ;) )!!

 

Cowboyin doesn't have much to do with CAS or SASS but if there was a Rodeo category would it require rough-stock, 4x4 trucks, or Cadillac's with horse trailers... I know, I know, there was probably one rodeo cowboy that drove a jeep <_<

 

As far as inside jokes go I suggested that a name change (Fancy) might be the way to go because as someone said the cat is outta the bag and since it is not really B-Western without a "Winchester" the name don't cut it... savvy?

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+1 to what Marshal Troop said

B-Westerns were not very accurate as to what the real cowboys used. Not just their guns but other things. Jeans were not worn and neither were belts but that is what they wore in the 30's and 40's when B-Westerns were made. Do we even want to talk about the saddles they used? I am too young to remember the B-Western movies (except on DVD) but I was and still am a great fan of the TV Westerns...but watch Bonanza sometimes which was set right after the War Between the States (Not the Civil War...my grandmother would turn in her grave if she heard me use that term). On Bonanza they used 1873 SAA revolvers pisols, they had a gun rack of "Henry rifles" in the living room but if you look closer at those "henrys" they were 92 Winchesters with the front stcck removed, the receiver painted yellow or gold and a little flush fitting plug to fill in the space for the loading gate. In episodes of Rawhide they used Winchester 73s and Marlins interchangably. in one episode the bad guy was shooting at Gil Favor with a 73 winchester , the camera cuts away and then back to the bad guy who is now using a Marlin and then changes back to a 73 winchester for the final shots before he was shot himself. In the movie Firecreek with Jimmy Stewart he picks up a revolver which chearly has an ejector rod along the barrel. Jimmy pushes the cylinder release and swings out the cylinder to the left to check how many rounds are left and snaps shut the revolver. Heck..even Roy Rogers sidekick even drives a Jeep.

 

MY opinion is to leave the rules as they are.

the above tv and movie information is fact because I saw them.

 

and Concho Billy Thanks...but remember the acronym...PTB.

 

 

Yeah...stoopid is as stoopid does.

 

Perhaps you should watch less movies and shoot more...

 

Fact is, before the BS started by good ol' Concho, that we are all members of SASS and therefore have a say in EVERY category that they sanction.

 

Whether the ideas or comments are worth anything don't matter.

 

So both of you can grow up a bit, put your cutesy little school yard "PTB" in the file under "Stoopid" and move on.

 

OY!

 

:FlagAm:

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Yeah...stoopid is as stoopid does.

 

Perhaps you should watch less movies and shoot more...

 

Fact is, before the BS started by good ol' Concho, that we are all members of SASS and therefore have a say in EVERY category that they sanction.

 

Whether the ideas or comments are worth anything don't matter.

 

So both of you can grow up a bit, put your cutesy little school yard "PTB" in the file under "Stoopid" and move on.

 

OY!

 

:FlagAm:

I Didn't say your opinion or anyone's opinion wasn't valid.......just said Jack could have one of his own. I think you should look in the mirror on the starting "BS" topic. How do you know "PTB" had anything to do with you? My entire post could very well be an inside joke between Jack and me.....(Like I have an opinion on everything and Jack doesn't speak up very often.....)You jumped to conclusion on what I was talking about, so if you got mad thats your fault, I never mentioned any names.....or, are you saying that I can't have an opinion either? BY-THE-WAY, I have never stooped to name calling.

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I Didn't say your opinion or anyone's opinion wasn't valid.......just said Jack could have one of his own. I think you should look in the mirror on the starting "BS" topic. How do you know "PTB" had anything to do with you? My entire post could very well be an inside joke between Jack and me.....(Like I have an opinion on everything and Jack doesn't speak up very often.....)You jumped to conclusion on what I was talking about, so if you got mad thats your fault, I never mentioned any names.....or, are you saying that I can't have an opinion either? BY-THE-WAY, I have never stooped to name calling.

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I hate when people who dont shoot the B-western category want to change the rules for B-Western...maybe B-Western competitors should be the ones consulted before any rule changes. I dont shoot Classic Cowboy and I would not want to be the one who proposes changes for that category.

 

Rules are fine the way they are...

 

yah

the same goes for Gun Fighter

 

(hyjack) alert

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I am with you Madd Mike...PTB...or

Pass

The

Beer.

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Perhaps you should watch less movies and shoot more...

 

 

So both of you can grow up a bit, put your cutesy little school yard "PTB" in the file under "Stoopid" and move on.

 

OY!

 

:FlagAm:

 

I will consider your advise and try not to have a life or any hobbies or anything outside of shooting.

and I looked in the file under "stupid" (correct spelling) and you would not believe what I found.

 

I wish SASS had a rule about "Interpersonal Conflicts WILL NOT be tolerated."

 

This whole thing makes me sick...I joined SASS to get my then 9 year old son involved in something really good. He is 14 now and this experience had really made a good kid and safe shooter out of him but he does NOT get on the wire. I wont let him!

Last weekend at our Saturday shoot, there was a shooter there from New York. The guy had a flat on his gun cart. My son said he was going to help the guy move his cart from Stage 6 all the way back to Stage 1 for our next stage. I told him ok. I looked up later and saw him CARRYING the guys cart, with the guys help, about 90-100 yards. He didnt know the guy, never met him before. Good kid.

I met some really good people in SASS, at my home clubs in Cleburne, and around the State of Texas. I have competed in a number of venues since I was a kid myself. For the most part everybody in each organization that I have joined have been great. Maybe I need to get my son and go do IDPA, 3-gun, etc....but I fear there will be the same Problem there.

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I will consider your advise and try not to have a life or any hobbies or anything outside of shooting.

and I looked in the file under "stupid" (correct spelling) and you would not believe what I found.

 

I wish SASS had a rule about "Interpersonal Conflicts WILL NOT be tolerated."

 

This whole thing makes me sick...I joined SASS to get my then 9 year old son involved in something really good. He is 14 now and this experience had really made a good kid and safe shooter out of him but he does NOT get on the wire. I wont let him!

Last weekend at our Saturday shoot, there was a shooter there from New York. The guy had a flat on his gun cart. My son said he was going to help the guy move his cart from Stage 6 all the way back to Stage 1 for our next stage. I told him ok. I looked up later and saw him CARRYING the guys cart, with the guys help, about 90-100 yards. He didnt know the guy, never met him before. Good kid.

I met some really good people in SASS, at my home clubs in Cleburne, and around the State of Texas. I have competed in a number of venues since I was a kid myself. For the most part everybody in each organization that I have joined have been great. Maybe I need to get my son and go do IDPA, 3-gun, etc....but I fear there will be the same Problem there.

 

Glad your kid is turning out well...

 

My post would have been made in response to: I hate when people who dont shoot the B-western category want to change the rules for B-Western...maybe B-Western competitors should be the ones consulted before any rule changes. I dont shoot Classic Cowboy and I would not want to be the one who proposes changes for that category regardless of who wrote it.

 

Concho and you have a thing about me and that's fine. Those that we're part of the last thread where we got into it know the deal with the "PTB" so stop with the innocent facade.

 

And are you telling me that I spelled Stoopid incorrectly????? Really?

 

:FlagAm:

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geez..i am selling my guns and gear.

Concho....Pass the beer...

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I took light angels to a leather smith (I have no idea if that is a real term) and had some leather put in to lengthen the drop of the holster. Now the butt of the gun is below the top of the belt and she is b-western legal. I had ordered a pair of holsters from the same maker as the rig but they cost so much she wouldn't use them so the alternative was tried. And worked. They look great. :)

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Glad your kid is turning out well...

 

My post would have been made in response to: I hate when people who dont shoot the B-western category want to change the rules for B-Western...maybe B-Western competitors should be the ones consulted before any rule changes. I dont shoot Classic Cowboy and I would not want to be the one who proposes changes for that category regardless of who wrote it.

 

Concho and you have a thing about me and that's fine. Those that we're part of the last thread where we got into it know the deal with the "PTB" so stop with the innocent facade.

 

And are you telling me that I spelled Stoopid incorrectly????? Really?

cle

:FlagAm:

 

Phantom,

I do not have a "thing" with you.......I don't know you, even though we shoot many of the same matches. I do have a problem with you jumping on some people that post anything on the SASS wire. I do have a problem with talking down to people and/or name calling. If that looses me your respect than so be it. I have a feeling that I will never be in your circle of friends anyway, so what is the loss? I do not shoot B-Western, so I will leave this tread. Happy Trails.

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Phantom,

I do not have a "thing" with you.......I don't know you, even though we shoot many of the same matches. I do have a problem with you jumping on some people that post anything on the SASS wire. I do have a problem with talking down to people and/or name calling. If that looses me your respect than so be it. I have a feeling that I will never be in your circle of friends anyway, so what is the loss? I do not shoot B-Western, so I will leave this tread. Happy Trails.

 

Replying in kind...too funny.

 

Anyway, B-Western is what it is. If a SASS member has ideas that he/she feel might make it a better class, then they have every right to state those ideas...and I'd encourage them to do so.

 

The ideas may be good...they may be bad...or something in between.

 

To say that one must be a participant in a particular category in order to comment on that category is silly.

 

Sorry you and Indian Jack can't handle my comments on your posts.

 

:FlagAm:

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geez..i am selling my guns and gear.

Concho....Pass the beer...

 

 

I thought on the other thread, you all was referring to it as "Poke The Bear" <_<

 

Don't try and cahnge it now. If ya said it. Live with it. Stand by it.

 

Ya Poked The Bear, and did not like what ya got.

 

 

Think I might just stop poking him if it was me. :wacko:

And ya know that is what ya was doing.

 

If a small, small, tiff on the wire, is all it would take for you to stop SASS????

Sounds like your heart was not there to begain with.

Just head out to a match and forget it.

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I thought on the other thread, you all was referring to it as "Poke The Bear" <_<

 

Don't try and cahnge it now. If ya said it. Live with it. Stand by it.

 

Ya Poked The Bear, and did not like what ya got.

 

 

Think I might just stop poking him if it was me. :wacko:

And ya know that is what ya was doing.

 

If a small, small, tiff on the wire, is all it would take for you to stop SASS????

Sounds like your heart was not there to begain with.

Just head out to a match and forget it.

Well, in fairness the bear usually pokes first and then he gets upset that someone poked back.........as in "I have zero respect for you."

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I thought on the other thread, you all was referring to it as "Poke The Bear" <_<

 

Don't try and cahnge it now. If ya said it. Live with it. Stand by it.

 

Ya Poked The Bear, and did not like what ya got.

 

 

Think I might just stop poking him if it was me. :wacko:

And ya know that is what ya was doing.

 

If a small, small, tiff on the wire, is all it would take for you to stop SASS????

Sounds like your heart was not there to begain with.

Just head out to a match and forget it.onw

 

Only someone who knows me would know what I meant. How would you know what I meant?. How do you know if it is not a quote that my late dad said.

I use that term alot at my work. if you or phantom want to spin it your way..fine..free country. People who know me know I wont back down to anything or anyone. My heart was in this game to begain with...but not so much now...it is not fun anymore...I do it simply to be with my friends, and to spend time with my kid and watch him grow in competition. I also said leave the rules as they are.

 

Only one persons opinion on this wire counts and God help you if your opinion is different.

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Only someone who knows me would know what I meant. How would you know what I meant?. How do you know if it is not a quote that my late dad said.

I use that term alot at my work. if you or phantom want to spin it your way..fine..free country. People who know me know I wont back down to anything or anyone. My heart was in this game to begain with...but not so much now...it is not fun anymore...I do it simply to be with my friends, and to spend time with my kid and watch him grow in competition. I also said leave the rules as they are.

 

Only one persons opinion on this wire counts and God help you if your opinion is different.

Hi Jack,

 

Pard, if your posts are so obscure that only someone who knows you would understand them, you might want to reword them before posting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "please speak your mind here, whether I like your opinion or not, I respect you for stating it" Mo

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Hey Allie, was wondering when you would step in. This is better than the Honeymooners!

 

 

 

ALICE!!!!!!one of these days.......well you know the rest.....

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there has been a lot of discussion over this category by lots of folks that don't shoot it. As an active participant here's my 2 cents;

B-Western is a fun categorywith many options in shooting style and dress. You can dress up or go B Western light, either way you have to adhere to the rules. If they don't suit you then find another category.

 

If I shot another category I would still shoot my SKB and Spur-Marlin

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To say that one must be a participant in a particular category in order to comment on that category is silly.

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

It aint silly

but it shud not be a rule neither

 

I git tired of none gunfighters picken on real gunfighters (etc bwestern, retired modern class etc)

try it first............then by all means......THEN..............shout from the mountain tops

 

so their

nannie-nannie-boo-b00 to you ALLL

:lol: LOL-LOL-lOL :lol:

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After shooting Winter Range on the posse with Slick McClade, I have an almost overwhelming urge for rhinestones...that's why he shot better than me, right? It was the rhinestones!!!!

 

The rules seem pretty spiffy to me...

 

Wolf Bane

SASS13557

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Only someone who knows me would know what I meant. How would you know what I meant?. How do you know if it is not a quote that my late dad said.

I use that term alot at my work. if you or phantom want to spin it your way..fine..free country. People who know me know I wont back down to anything or anyone. My heart was in this game to begain with...but not so much now...it is not fun anymore...I do it simply to be with my friends, and to spend time with my kid and watch him grow in competition. I also said leave the rules as they are.

 

Only one persons opinion on this wire counts and God help you if your opinion is different.

 

Continuing with the Honeymooner's theme...

 

You and Concho have a problem with my comment about your comment regarding those that comment on categories that they don't participate in should basically keep their mouth shut...or perhaps you and Concho have a problem with my comments about any comments that you make...hmmmmmmm...interesting...

 

I think y'all just have a comment-phobia...perhaps there's a medication that can help with that...maybe...but in any event, I hope y'all enjoy Pokin The Bear...seems kinda...Bay Area-ish...

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Continuing with the Honeymooner's theme...

 

You and Concho have a problem with my comment about your comment regarding those that comment on categories that they don't participate in should basically keep their mouth shut...or perhaps you and Concho have a problem with my comments about any comments that you make...hmmmmmmm...interesting...

 

I think y'all just have a comment-phobia...perhaps there's a medication that can help with that...maybe...but in any event, I hope y'all enjoy Pokin The Bear...seems kinda...Bay Area-ish...

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

Hmmmmmm, Bay Area-ish, phobia, medication, back to name calling and rude references......let me know if you want to have an adult conversation.

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Hmmmmmm, Bay Area-ish, phobia, medication, back to name calling and rude references......let me know if you want to have an adult conversation.

 

You are obviously void of any ability to comprehend humor...therefore, I will seek out an adult...and have a conversation with him/her.

 

Now, if you want to see if your comment regarding the "Bear" poking first, may I suggest you go back to the post I originally made in this thread and see that my comment was very specific as too the point I was making and was anything but an attack on the poster.

 

Or...you can be a Child and continue with your belief that I was somehow poking at your friend Indian Jack.

 

Oy!

 

Talk about having to grow up...

 

:wacko:

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Why not quit the high school bickering and limit the thread to relavant comments??

 

You mean...this thread still has the potential for relevent comments?

 

...and I would definitely not classify these bickering posts as High School...Jr. High maybe...probably more like Grammer School level.

 

:FlagAm:

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