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It's time for a B-Western category rules revision


Sunset Slim SASS #46179

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“Because that’s what folks expect to see”. I’m likely paraphrasing just a bit but that’s essentially what I was told at Mule Camp 2004 when I asked why only buscadero rigs were allowed for the B-Western category.

 

Mule Camp 2004 was the first time that SASS officially sponsored the B-Western category. When I first became aware that SASS was going to have a B-western category and that Mule Camp 2004 would be the first official competition, I knew I had to be there for it. I began to plan and assemble my outfit. Hat, boots, spurs, clothes and the centerpiece…my belt and holster rig. For that I went to Jim Lockwood of Legends in Leather who is generally regarded as the foremost authority in B-western gun leather. After much collaboration, we decided to try to incorporate some detail from each of the B-western decades in tribute to those legends of yore and the result was stunning. A floral carved silver mounted masterpiece that absolutely reeked of B-Western…but was not legal for SASS B-Western competition. I’ll admit that I started putting my outfit together before the rules were published but out of necessity and consideration for the various makers’ turnaround times. Well, needless to say, I wasn’t allowed to compete in B-Western at that inaugural event but rules are rules and I figured SASS would come around. One does, after all, have to start somewhere.

 

Nearly seven years later the rules for the B-Western category remain unchanged. Under the current rules Bronco Billy Anderson, possibly the father of the B-Western and veteran of over 400 films would not be allowed to compete in the SASS B-Western category. Nor would Ken Maynard, Hoot Gibson or Tom Mix. Roy Rogers wore rigs that allowed the pistol butt to ride above the top edge of the belt so guess what? Yup…even Roy Rogers would not be able to compete in SASS B-Western. C’mon folks. It’s past time for a B-Western category revision. The buscadero rig played a very small part in the history of the B-Western genre and that fact ought to be recognized by allowing fancy mexican loop rigs and other types of gun leather that appeared throughout the B-Western heyday.

 

On a similar vein, I don’t ever recall seeing Hoppy banging away at the bad guys with a short stroked ’73 or The Cisco Kid thwarting a bank robbery with a race ready ’97. ’92s and SxSs should be the mandated long guns for the B-Western category simply because that’s what folks expect to see.

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read the rules 73's are not allowed. the current world and national B Western champ shoots a 94 Marlin and a SxS and goes above and beyond with his clothing. including his rig.

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Here's an idea...

Use the equipment required in the B- Western category or shoot another category.

 

You can wear your fancy Non Buscadero rig in EVERY other category.

You can wear your fringe shirts in EVERY other category.

You can wear your pointy toed - fancy stiched boots in EVERY other category.

 

You can shoot your SxS in EVERY other category (except classic - unless it's a hammered SxS)

You can shoot your 92 in EVERY other category (except classic)

 

73's are NOT legal in B-Western, so worrying about somebodies short stroked 73 has no bearing on your argument.

 

So either abide by the rules of the SINGLE category that you are complaining about or find a different category to shoot in.

After all - We would make Bronco Billy Anderson, Ken Maynard, Hoot Gibson, Tom Mix and Roy Rogers change their rigs to shoot in B- Western.

We should change the rules for you? :)

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O.K. Ken Maynard did wear a buscadero, just not all the time...

 

Me thinks the only change ta be made in BW is that all competitors be required to shoot BP or a BP sub. Afterall all the movies used it so's ya could see the smoke... we should too!

 

JJJ-D

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Good luck with that!!!

You don't HAVE to have a "Buscadero" belt, just have holsters that have the pistol grip below the top of the belt.

 

 

+1

And you should see the new B-Western rig Jack just got done making my wife.

 

WOW.

 

Just wish I could figure out how to get them to PB so I can post the pics.

The rig is AWSOME.

Got to wait till one of my kids comes over to show me how. :wacko::blink:

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Well now, a better approach would be to ask that it be included as an agenda item, after carefully reading the rules.

 

Then you could go from there.

 

Cheyenne, who shoots a 94 marlin, a sxs, a fancy drop loop holster and plenty of bling, Culpepper

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A change I'd like to see is only revolvers with fixed sights be allowed. Never saw a revolver with adjustable sights used in any B-Western movie.

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+1

And you should see the new B-Western rig Jack just got done making my wife.

 

WOW.

 

Just wish I could figure out how to get them to PB so I can post the pics.

The rig is AWSOME.

Got to wait till one of my kids comes over to show me how. :wacko::blink:

Am I going to have to come over there and show you how??? B)

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

Every person I can think of the shoots B-Western.

Shoots a Marlin 94.

 

Don't think that the 92 only thing will fly very far at all. <_<

 

And... every B-Western I can think of only has 92's :blink:

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A change I'd like to see is only revolvers with fixed sights be allowed. Never saw a revolver with adjustable sights used in any B-Western movie.

 

 

I also never saw a '97 used in a B-Western, also never saw Gene or Roy shoot 2-handed, but the rules are what we have and there are lots of other Categories available.

 

I also shoot a '94 Marlin, SXS and Vaqueros in a carved Buscadero Rig.

 

Randy

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Speaking of Boben Weev, here's a pic of him, Raider and I at last years Wisconsin State championship. I shoot a Winchester 92, Boben Weev a Lightning, and Raider uses Marlin 94.

 

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/vrieze42/Wisconsin%20State%20Championship%202010/101_0620.jpg

 

Oh, and the rules are fine as they stand...

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How about leaving the rules alone for a while. Some of us spend more than we can afford, (or our wives think we can afford), conforming to the rules as they are written. Sometimes CHANGE isn't a good thing for everyone in the class.

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OK so I misspoke on the '73 thing there, just got a bit carried away but I'm sure you all get the idea. The class is B-Western not The Hoppy, Gene and Roy category so why not take the necessary steps to make it correct? Thats all I'm really saying here. I can respect those of you who say conform to the rules or shoot another category but would change make the category better? And if a category, any category, is improved upon doesn't that ultimately make SASS better? Any improved upon category is sure to draw new shooters. I kind of figured we were all about that sort of thing.

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you dont have to wear a bisqit-er r0 holster rig

 

the top of your pistol grips must be BELOW the top of the belt..........

in any type holster rig

 

 

geeeeeeeeeeeese

 

Kirkpatric leather has this

Long Hunter B-western rig.

THe only difference between the standard Long Hunter rig and B-western version is that the B-western version has been modified so that the top of the grip lies below the top of the belt as required by SASS rules.

http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/clh09/

 

note the b western option

I have em, I love em

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you dont have to wear a bisqit-er r0 holster rig

 

the top of your pistol grips must be BELOW the top of the belt..........

in any type holster rig

 

 

geeeeeeeeeeeese

 

Kirkpatric leather has this

Long Hunter B-western rig.

THe only difference between the standard Long Hunter rig and B-western version is that the B-western version has been modified so that the top of the grip lies below the top of the belt as required by SASS rules.

http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/clh09/

 

note the b western option

I have em, I love em

 

very cool site

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:lol::lol: Good Luck!! :wacko: I still think BP shooters should have the same category as smokeless...Like FCGF :o:D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

AMEN Pard

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OK so I misspoke on the '73 thing there, just got a bit carried away but I'm sure you all get the idea. The class is B-Western not The Hoppy, Gene and Roy category so why not take the necessary steps to make it correct? Thats all I'm really saying here. I can respect those of you who say conform to the rules or shoot another category but would change make the category better? And if a category, any category, is improved upon doesn't that ultimately make SASS better? Any improved upon category is sure to draw new shooters. I kind of figured we were all about that sort of thing.

 

 

Improved in who's eyes????? Yours??????

 

I don't recall every hearing another B-Western shooter calling for change.

 

And bet you any amount you want.

That those that shoot a Marlin. Would not call taking there Marlin away, and making

them shoot a 92, would be what they would call an improvement. Not by a long shot.

 

And to do that after the fact that they have already bought the stuff for it now.

Then to go back and say. NO. What you bought, and have been using for years. Just won't

cut it now. Just wait for the screams to come out trying to pull that one off.

 

You could add to the category. But not take it away.

Once that cat is out of the bag. You can not put it back in.

especially after all this time.

 

Just don't see how your idea of change would make it better.

Think more people would leave the category, than start it with those ideas.

Maybe the changing the holster rule might.

But taking away the Marlin??? Think you run more off than you could ever add.

 

P.S.

We have just invested almost $1000 buck switching my wife to B-Western.

New rig, boots, shirts etc...

And that is not counting having to change guns.

Now your idea would make me have to go buy a 92 then have to

add action work to it to make it work.

No thanks. That would have been the last straw. She never

would have made the switch.

She would not give up that Marlin for a new race ready 73.

You think she would give it up for a 92???? :blink:

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:lol::lol: Good Luck!! :wacko: I still think BP shooters should have the same category as smokeless...Like FCGF :o:D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

 

 

shoot FCGF with me this year at End Of Trail

we will have a blast

punnnnnnnnnnn intended

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I think I can speak for several of us shooters currently shooting B-Western. I talk to lots of people shooting this class and have not heard any of them complaining of the current rules. When I started shooting SASS in 2006, I read the rule book and understood the rules before going out and purchasing anything. After reading all the requirments for each class I chose B-Western because it seem to fit me a little better.(I like flashy stuff).I dont shoot a Buscadero rig but instead I had a custom leather maker make me a hornback alligator rig with over 150 montana silversmith conchos on it and yes its legal. I shoot a marlin rifle and would not trade it for 10 race ready 73's(nothing against a 73) even if I was not shooting B-Western. I have a SKB SxS for my main match shotgun and again would not shoot anything else.

I'm truly sorry that you spent your money on a rig that you cannot use, but I dont see the rest of use needing a rule change so you can wear your rig in B-western. I shoot B-Western because it's different from most classes and that's what makes it fun to shoot for me. Plus I'm starting to really like all the photo opps the bling is getting me :lol: Anyway we are glad to have you shooting B-Western if you want to continue with the current rules. Most of the shooters are just barly getting by in these tough times and cant spend the extra money it would take for another rule change.

Change is not always good, see what the current "Change" in our goverment leadership is costing us!!!! :angry:

 

 

Slick :FlagAm:

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Slim,

 

Your information is slightly incorrect.

 

The 2004 Mule Camp category of B-Western was a local category. At that time, it was not an official SASS category.

 

If my memory serves me correctly (not always true) it was voted on and approved as a SASS official category in December of 2005.

 

That would make it an official SASS category in mid 2006.

 

There was plenty of time to chime in before the official rules were established.

 

Roo

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I think I can speak for several of us shooters currently shooting B-Western. I talk to lots of people shooting this class and have not heard any of them complaining of the current rules. When I started shooting SASS in 2006, I read the rule book and understood the rules before going out and purchasing anything. After reading all the requirments for each class I chose B-Western because it seem to fit me a little better.(I like flashy stuff).I dont shoot a Buscadero rig but instead I had a custom leather maker make me a hornback alligator rig with over 150 montana silversmith conchos on it and yes its legal. I shoot a marlin rifle and would not trade it for 10 race ready 73's(nothing against a 73) even if I was not shooting B-Western. I have a SKB SxS for my main match shotgun and again would not shoot anything else.

I'm truly sorry that you spent your money on a rig that you cannot use, but I dont see the rest of use needing a rule change so you can wear your rig in B-western. I shoot B-Western because it's different from most classes and that's what makes it fun to shoot for me. Plus I'm starting to really like all the photo opps the bling is getting me :lol: Anyway we are glad to have you shooting B-Western if you want to continue with the current rules. Most of the shooters are just barly getting by in these tough times and cant spend the extra money it would take for another rule change.

Change is not always good, see what the current "Change" in our goverment leadership is costing us!!!! :angry:

 

 

Slick :FlagAm:

 

Very well said......

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Slim,

 

Your information is slightly incorrect.

 

The 2004 Mule Camp category of B-Western was a local category. At that time, it was not an official SASS category.

 

If my memory serves me correctly (not always true) it was voted on and approved as a SASS official category in December of 2005.

That is correct. See page 5 of the January 2006 "Territorial Bulletin".

 

That would make it an official SASS category in mid 2006.

 

There was plenty of time to chime in before the official rules were established.

 

Roo

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

OK so I misspoke on the '73 thing there, just got a bit carried away but I'm sure you all get the idea. The class is B-Western not The Hoppy, Gene and Roy category so why not take the necessary steps to make it correct? Thats all I'm really saying here. I can respect those of you who say conform to the rules or shoot another category but would change make the category better? And if a category, any category, is improved upon doesn't that ultimately make SASS better? Any improved upon category is sure to draw new shooters. I kind of figured we were all about that sort of thing.

 

"I also never saw a '97 used in a B-Western, also never saw Gene or Roy shoot 2-handed, but the rules are what we have and there are lots of other Categories available."

 

Slim,

 

I think you are almost on the right track but since the B-Western folks that have responded to you don't really care about or what a B-Western was... maybe you should just push for a name change for the category instead!

 

I have always thought it was the dumbest idea to come up with a category and almost exclude the rifle used in the B-Western genre by allowing other rifles that were seldom if ever used in B-westerns (I know someone will find one Marlin outta a 100,000 B-Westerns :wacko: ). I am not sure right off the top but I think the "73" is the only SASS approved gun not allowed in the B-Western category. Isn't that restrictive...

 

FANCY CATEGORY!! That should be the name and it should require that everyone dress like Porter Wagoner at the Grand Ol' Opry (not like them fellers that were dressed like they were going to the sales barn ;) ) Heck may as well allow 73's too cuz folks like them better than 92's also <_< To keep the hypocrisy to a minimum a line could be added to the entry form that states the shooter acknowledges the use of a non-B-Western long gun in the B-Western category?

 

I always thought shooting B-Western would be fun but I can shoot a 92, shoot duelist, own a SxS, and can knock out windows with my barrel before shooting the targets. None of these things are required in the current category rules :huh: The real thing that would impede most clubs offering a true B-Western category would be the targets shaped like hands...

 

Good Luck Slim!!

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"I also never saw a '97 used in a B-Western, also never saw Gene or Roy shoot 2-handed, but the rules are what we have and there are lots of other Categories available."

 

Slim,

 

I think you are almost on the right track but since the B-Western folks that have responded to you don't really care about or what a B-Western was... maybe you should just push for a name change for the category instead!

 

I have always thought it was the dumbest idea to come up with a category and almost exclude the rifle used in the B-Western genre by allowing other rifles that were seldom if ever used in B-westerns (I know someone will find one Marlin outta a 100,000 B-Westerns :wacko: ). I am not sure right off the top but I think the "73" is the only SASS approved gun not allowed in the B-Western category. Isn't that restrictive...FANCY CATEGORY!! That should be the name and it should require that everyone dress like Porter Wagoner at the Grand Ol' Opry (not like them fellers that were dressed like they were going to the sales barn ;) ) Heck may as well allow 73's too cuz folks like them better than 92's also <_< To keep the hypocrisy to a minimum a line could be added to the entry form that states the shooter acknowledges the use of a non-B-Western long gun in the B-Western category?

 

 

 

The 1860 Henry, 1866 and 1873 are not legal in B-Western. I may be wrong but I think the reason for the rifle restriction is because Classic Cowboy does not allow the rifles allowed in B-Western.

 

Randy

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That's pretty much the idea behind the split between the two categories' rifle regulations.

 

“B” WESTERN

• ...

 

• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning Rifle, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

SHB p.16

 

CLASSIC COWBOY/COWGIRL

• ...

• Rifles: Any 1873 or earlier manufacture SASS–legal rifle or a replica thereof (e.g., 1866 Winchester, 1860 Henry, 1873 Winchester).

SHB p.15
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I hate when people who dont shoot the B-western category want to change the rules for B-Western...maybe B-Western competitors should be the ones consulted before any rule changes. I dont shoot Classic Cowboy and I would not want to be the one who proposes changes for that category.

 

Rules are fine the way they are...

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I hate when people who dont shoot the B-western category want to change the rules for B-Western...maybe B-Western competitors should be the ones consulted before any rule changes. I dont shoot Classic Cowboy and I would not want to be the one who proposes changes for that category.

 

Rules are fine the way they are...

 

B-Western...like other categories are open to all SASS members. Therefore, each has a say.

 

When folks were voting to get rid of the Modern class, everyone's input was acceptable.

 

:FlagAm:

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too bad I dont have an opinion.

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Mentioned on a previous post was the Kirkpatrick Leather B Western Rig (One that I am now using now in my SASS shooting). Although I have to mention that I do not shoot in the B Western Category, but the Frontier Cartridge instead. The reason that I acquired this rig was because it offered an easier draw compared to their standard 09 rig. The belt was a standard belt (not a buscadero belt/holster combo) and just the holsters were modified to prevent the gun butts from resting above the top ridge of the belt line. This allowed for a lower profile and easier draw for me (with a bad shoulder and all). It also made it cool because I had other guns/holsters to place on the same belt and could easily swap them out on the standard belt, not being fixed to a buscadero rig. I can see your plight after spending all that coin on a custom rig, but before I ordered mine, I checked the rule book and Kirkpatrick's notes which said that their rig was good for all categories save one. That made my mind up on that rig and away I went. The only other leather I needed to purchase was a rig for Wild Bunch. If you are going to double up on rigs, I would suggest considering the Kirkpatrick Leather 09 B Western Rig. It's a winner. Smithy.

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too bad I dont have an opinion.

Well, Jack at least you only have an opinion on a category you actually shoot and not on everything in the universe.........lol.

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deleted as rude and peevish. Or so sez my wife.

 

 

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