Two Spurs Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 A guy I work with has ended up with (and would like to know the manufacture date of) what sounds like an original Colt Paterson. It has "CMC", a 5 digit number and the letter "A" on it. Anyone have a year range or know where I might look? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 A guy I work with has ended up with (and would like to know the manufacture date of) what sounds like an original Colt Paterson. It has "CMC", a 5 digit number and the letter "A" on it. Anyone have a year range or know where I might look? Thanks If it's a for-real Paterson you should contact Colt. They should be able to tell you everything about it. It's my understanding that all of the patersons are pretty much accounted for. If that is a true paterson it will be worth several thousand dollars. Because of that there have been some folks trying to pass off some fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Be neat if it is the real thing but these don't pop up very often. Just wondering if your buddy might have picked it up at one of those so-called Western memorabilia auctions. There was an outfit in western OK that specialized in pawning off re-done & engraved Colts and even sold a genuine fake Walker to some guy out of Dallas. It was in litigation last I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Spurs Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Be neat if it is the real thing but these don't pop up very often. Just wondering if your buddy might have picked it up at one of those so-called Western memorabilia auctions. There was an outfit in western OK that specialized in pawning off re-done & engraved Colts and even sold a genuine fake Walker to some guy out of Dallas. It was in litigation last I heard. I'll check with Colt like Nate said. He was helping an elderly woman yesterday(can't remember the connection) clean out the closet of an old house that she owned and they found it tucked in a holster. That would be one of those crazy stories you hear about if it's legit. I'm hoping to get a peek at it Monday and call Colt. If it's a rare find, I'll share the good news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'll check with Colt like Nate said. He was helping an elderly woman yesterday(can't remember the connection) clean out the closet of an old house that she owned and they found it tucked in a holster. That would be one of those crazy stories you hear about if it's legit. I'm hoping to get a peek at it Monday and call Colt. If it's a rare find, I'll share the good news! If legit, the find of a lifetime....maybe a dozen lifetimes. Be sure and preserve the holster too. And look around for any accesories...like the loader, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Paterson Revolvers were made from 1837 to 1843. No.1 Pocket or Baby Paterson c.1837-1838 Serial No. 1 to 500 No.2 and No.3 Belt Model Paterson c.1838-1840 Serial No. 1 to 850 No.5 Holster or Texas Paterson c.1838-1840 Serial No. 1 to 1000 4th and 5th Model Ehlers Pistols (with loading levers) c.1840-1843 Serial No. 1 to 500 There were only 2850 Patterson revolvers made, so a 5 digit serial number raises some suspicions.... Get photos - detailed photos. Call Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Patootie, SASS #35798 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I had the opportunity to look at a Paterson not too long ago. It was marked Colt and looked pretty good but the existing grip screws and grip shape was not exact to my eye. Some research indicates that some copies were made in Spain and possibly Belgium. If it's real, it could be worth a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDisaster # 45431 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Contact Colt of you think it is authentic, Does R.L. Wilson stir any thoughts? Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Does R.L. Wilson stir any thoughts? Doc Howdy Doc, Yup. R.L. is a convicted felon. He was sent to the Big House for wire fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, and for income tax evasion. In effect he falsified appraisal certifications on antique firearms. But not because of his research. Which is still considered the best available. (and also why he was able to commit the fraud). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Colt will direct you to the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody, Wy at http://www.bbhc.org/home/. The gun sounds very suspicious. Dixie Gun Works or Navy Arms probably has the longest history of bringing replicas into the US of the companeis still in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDisaster # 45431 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I agree on his research and have many of his books, my point was even a world renowned expert can be a CON. Howdy Doc, Yup. R.L. is a convicted felon. He was sent to the Big House for wire fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, and for income tax evasion. In effect he falsified appraisal certifications on antique firearms. But not because of his research. Which is still considered the best available. (and also why he was able to commit the fraud). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The last Colt Paterson I seen was about 9 or 10 years ago at the Winchester antique gun auction and sale in Cody Wyoming. I watched Mike Harvey that owns Cimarron bid $120,000.00 for it and loose it to a higher bidder. Big, big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Man Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 As Ivory Jack said, The five diget serial number would be above production runs. I have owned several orginals over the years and have never seen one above mid 900s and that was on Texas Patersons. There is one now that a dude is trying to sell her in Texas that in ever respect looks just like an orginal and with out having a know one to measure and compare it is almost impossible to know for sure. He said to a friend of mine well I know they are going for $90,000 and up this one should be worth $45,000 if you want it now. Rock Island Auction just had a couple sell and the lowest I have seen one go for lately was low $20,000 and I think the one at Rock Island just went for well over $100,000 and they they were not the Texas Model that bring more. I have been after a orginal Texas Model for the last 20 years or so and on a trade we have talked about I would still have around $175,000 tied up in it and it is not cased. Some years ago, I was at a large gunshow when a well dressed man came in a asked a young man I was talking with if he could look at a Patersonhe had just bought for $65,000 and when he pulled it out and removed the barrel from the frame he asked the man if he wanted to know the truth or not? The man said yes and the young man [i never did get his name] told him it was a fake and asking how he knew he showed him where file marks should have been on an orginal. The man thanked him and said here it throw it in the trash can. Another time I was a tthe Houston gunshow and right at closing time on Sunday a old woman and two grown boys came in with a wash tub full of spurs and horseshoes and on top of the heep was a Texas Paterson. I looked a tit and it was just something that was not right to me and I pasted on it and on the way out the door I happen to run into Jim Volgrass, Jim was a man that knew guns and also had a reprotation as a master faker. I ask Jim if he had seen the Paterson and he said no show me and when Jim picked it up he looked at it and pitched it down telling me it was a fake. Laterr as we wereleaving iZ asked Jim how he knew and he said it didnot have the crawling snakes on each side of the front or read of the name on top of the barrel. I knew something was wrong. A few years later I was talking to a Paterson collector and told him about what Jim had done and He started laughting so harrd he had to sit down and he aske dme if I knew why Jim had spotted it so quick and I said no and he replyed hell thats bacause he has faked enought Paterson him self. Made since to me. Jim is long dead now and I tell thi sonly because he was well know for his faking and he did get me once, But damn it one could not help but like the old cuss. My first Colt Texas Paterson turned up in Fredericksburg, Texas in 1955 out of an old womans attic. She found out it was into old guns and ask if I was interested in it. I got my 14 year old body in my car Yes I had a hardship licence and drove from Kerrville to Fredericksburg, Texas and she informed me she needed a new refridger and would trade even up giving the Paterson. The new G.E. Fridge cost me $56.00 hard earned dollars and I had my first real orginal Texas Paterson serial number 36. I was one happy kid, Shot it for a year or so and sold it for I think under $500.00. Texas Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang, SASS #53480 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Texas man . . . . I always enjoy your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'll check with Colt like Nate said. He was helping an elderly woman yesterday(can't remember the connection) clean out the closet of an old house that she owned and they found it tucked in a holster. That would be one of those crazy stories you hear about if it's legit. I'm hoping to get a peek at it Monday and call Colt. If it's a rare find, I'll share the good news! I confess that I'm curious as to where the elderly woman fits in, in the highly unlikely event that this turns out to be authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. QUINCANNON, SASS #32999 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'm very skeptical, with a 5 digit serial number, and the letters you mention. It sounds like an older replica. I've only SEEN 2 or 3 Patersons, and they were in museums. I've never known anyone who owned one (though I DID get to hold an original Walker once, long ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Spurs Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, I finally got a peek today. It's a muzzle loader. I know zip about those. Kinda looks like it coulda been a kit (the barrell screws on and it has dovetail slots towards both the front and back) but it does have the "CMC" marking stamped on it like he said- which makes me wonder. Barrell is about 6" long. The nipple is on the top. Frame looks like brass ??? Any further ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDisaster # 45431 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 How about some pictures? Screw on barrel, Nipple on top sounds like a, brass frame boot gun, does the trigger recess into the frame? Doc Well, I finally got a peek today. It's a muzzle loader. I know zip about those. Kinda looks like it coulda been a kit (the barrell screws on and it has dovetail slots towards both the front and back) but it does have the "CMC" marking stamped on it like he said- which makes me wonder. Barrell is about 6" long. The nipple is on the top. Frame looks like brass ??? Any further ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, I finally got a peek today. It's a muzzle loader. I know zip about those. Kinda looks like it coulda been a kit (the barrell screws on and it has dovetail slots towards both the front and back) but it does have the "CMC" marking stamped on it like he said- which makes me wonder. Barrell is about 6" long. The nipple is on the top. Frame looks like brass ??? Any further ideas? Something Like this? BOOT DERRINGER REPLICA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang, SASS #53480 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Something Like this? BOOT DERRINGER REPLICA IF . . . it looks anything like THAT . . . who the H . . . ever considered that it might be a Colt Patterson ? . . huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Something Like this? BOOT DERRINGER REPLICA I think Nate called it. CMC made kit guns under the Connecticut Valley Arms (CVA) label. They were marketed by Dixie Gun Works in the 70s and 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 IF . . . it looks anything like THAT . . . who the H . . . ever considered that it might be a Colt Patterson ? . . huh Wolfgang - Probably something about the swing-down trigger. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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