New issue tumbling, I think!

[Eyesa Horg]

The last couple of batches of reloads I've done, both 45 & 38, I've been noticing brass dust on my reloader. Just started wet tumbling this season. When I took our brass out of tumbler I noticed I'm getting a burr at the mouth of the cases. It easily catches a finger nail and is rough on the inside. The burr looks like what you get when you cut tubing with a tubing cutter. Is this from the mouths banging into each other for hours or possibly just from being reloaded so many times? To chamfer them all would be a large PIA! They appear as though the crimp didn't completely open up, but rough. Nothing else has changed in my loads. Thanks for ideas.

EH

[Ranger Dan]

Yes the crimp doesn't completely open up. Result of our use of light loads and soft bullets. And yes it does chew up the mouth of the case after multiple reloads, eventually they split.

[Eyesa Horg]

59 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Yes the crimp doesn't completely open up. Result of our use of light loads and soft bullets. And yes it does chew up the mouth of the case after multiple reloads, eventually they split.

So, not likely related to wet tumbling then?

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

Wet tumbling is not at fault.  You can give a shot of dry lube inside the case mouth and that would reduce the risk of scraping the the brass.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

What media are you using?

You want a slow turning tumbler.

Rinse the brass twice, before drying. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I don't wet tumble and haven't heard of this.  However, if you've been reloading for years and the only thing that changed before this issue appeared was the wet tumbling, then I'd look at it harder.  Maybe you are doing something different from others.

 

edit: you didn't just clean your loading machine did you?  Might have been doing this before but it was too grungy to notice? 

[Wild Hair Larry]

You may have said but how long do you tumble. 

[pachaug kid]

Eyesa, If u resize, remove primers before wet tumbling, it may solve the rough edges, also primer pockets will be cleaned as well?

[Eyesa Horg]

11 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What media are you using?

You want a slow turning tumbler.

Rinse the brass twice, before drying. 

I'm using the large Frankfort arsenal with a 9mm case of LemiShine, a little less than a 12ga hull of StratoSheen and 1& 1/2oz of ArmorAll carwash with wax. The edge of the mouth is all rough and look like brass filings on the bench once loaded again.

[Eyesa Horg]

10 hours ago, Wild Hair Larry said:

You may have said but how long do you tumble. 

The full 3 hours. On my 45 brass I do a half hour with cheap carwash to get the blowby off,then rinse, then 3 hours as in my reply to Lumpy.

[Eyesa Horg]

7 minutes ago, pachaug kid said:

Eyesa, If u resize, remove primers before wet tumbling, it may solve the rough edges, also primer pockets will be cleaned as well?

I do deprimed, however without the pins there's still some gunk in the pocket. It doesn't seem to be an issue reseating new primers however. I'll try to get a closeup picture to post.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

48 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I'm using the large Frankfort arsenal with a 9mm case of LemiShine, a little less than a 12ga hull of StratoSheen and 1& 1/2oz of ArmorAll carwash with wax. The edge of the mouth is all rough and look like brass filings on the bench once loaded again.

No media like pins or ceramic stones?? 

[Eyesa Horg]

Just now, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

No media like pins or ceramic stones?? 

No, I used the pins at the beginning of the year when I got the tumbler and deprimed. I had never deprimed this brass in over 6 years. I'm thinking maybe the mouths have just work hardened so much that they are finally deteriorating.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

No, I used the pins at the beginning of the year when I got the tumbler and deprimed. I had never deprimed this brass in over 6 years. I'm thinking maybe the mouths have just work hardened so much that they are finally deteriorating.

Try it with the pins 

They also act as a 'cushion' for brass.

Do you fill it with water? You should.

[Eyesa Horg]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Try it with the pins 

They also act as a 'cushion' for brass.

Do you fill it with water? You should.

I usually fill to within a couple inches of full.

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I usually fill to within a couple inches of full.

 

Fill to just cover the pins and cases.

Run for 1 hr and check the cases.

[Silver Creek Jack]

Been wet tumbling for years with pins and deprimed, never had this problem, the pins may help to ckean up the case mouth of those tiny burrs.

[Silver Creek Jack]

Opps sorry, just saw OLG just said the same!!

[Eyesa Horg]

I've got new rifle brass for next year!! Will try the above suggestions and see how it goes. One thing for sure is I need a sink in the basement! Up and down the stairs is getting old! Glad to hear it's probably not the tumbler causing the issue. One thing I do like about depriming first, is that the reloading goes smoother with no fail to deprime issues happening.

Thank you all.

EH

[Whitey James]

I've been wet tumbling for quite a while. Started with the stainless pins but saw on YouTube some mention they didn't use any media, just Dawn and Lemi-Shine.

Never had any issues with the brass.  I also use the Frankford tumbler. I fill all the way up and run for 2 hours. I use the included plastic screen when emptying to keep the brass in and then fill it back up half way, shake it, dump it out. I will do this until the water is clean with no signs of soap. Then I dump all of the clean brass on a towel and pat dry then put the brass in an old food dehydrator to fully dry. Brass always comes out looking brand new.

My guess is the brass (if it's been reloaded many times) is just getting brittle. Some folks anneal their brass to keep this from happening.

[Eyesa Horg]

I just swiped this photo from a for sale ad here. This is what I'm talking about with the rough mouth opening. His pic is way clearer than mine! Enlarge a bit to see, especially the upper right. I'll have to get on my PC to include a pic of the brass dust they leave on everything after loading. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Cut back on the amount of cases in the tumbler. 

[Eyesa Horg]

10 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Cut back on the amount of cases in the tumbler. 

Thanks, I'll try that. I've been filling it about half wayish or so and water to a tad below the mouth.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just now, Eyesa Horg said:

Thanks, I'll try that. I've been filling it about half wayish or so and water to a tad below the mouth.

Can you post a picture or 2 of your tumbler setup? 

[Eyesa Horg]

41 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Can you post a picture or 2 of your tumbler setup? 

I can do that! It's just the large FART (Frankfort Arsenal Rotary Tumbler) or are you looking for something in particular with my unit?

I'm using the large Frankfort arsenal with a 9mm case of LemiShine, a little less than a 12ga hull of StratoSheen and 1& 1/2oz of ArmorAll carwash with wax. 

 

Haven't used the pins since the first try with this tumbler after depriming.

[Dr. Zook]

Question please,  Has this effect also been noticed using a vibratory tumbler (like a CV750/1200) with walnut shell or corncob media or limited to wet tumbling?

[Eyesa Horg]

Just now, Dr. Zook said:

Question please,  Has this effect also been noticed using a vibratory tumbler (like a CV750/1200) with walnut shell or corncob media or limited to wet tumbling?

I've never experienced this dry tumbling. But I only dry tumbled for 1 1/2 hours compared to 3 with wet. The issue just cropped up the last 2 times I've wet tumbled, so wonder if part of the issue is that this brass has been reloaded many times. I've also noticed that the crimp hasn't completely straightened out either. Maybe an annealer should be in my future! The wife's 38s also show the issue as well, but not to the point of all the brass filings.

[Eyesa Horg]

 

[Dr. Zook]

I just did a few loads in a CV-750 with walnut, I went to go look at mine after reading your posting... looks like the walnut 'burnishes', if that's the correct verbiage, the rim of the case on my particular brass that i just did.  But I will now keep an eye one it to see if it occurs in the future...thank you for posting about this...

[Eyesa Horg]

The first 4 pix show the mouths, if enlarged you can see how the crimp is rolled over and somewhat flattened and the edge is brittle and turns to filings once belled and crimped again. the last photo shows the filing when I empty the Akro Bin out on the bench to case check them.

Couldn't for the life of me add text to the pictures!!

[Griff]

Eyesa, I can't help.  I've started wet tumbling early 2023, and have always used the SS pins.  (I actually think they're either chrome plated steel or high carbon content SS as they're easily picked up with a magnet).  I pretty much only shoot 45Auto, C45S & 45 Colt and tumble them all together.  And whether they were shot with BP or smokeless, I just decap, and tumble for the full 3 hours with just the Dawn dish soap & pins.  If my case mouths are a little rough, I've never noticed.

5-23-2023, before:

5-23-2023, after:

And here are some from my latest batch I did a couple of months ago.

 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Those look real nice Griff, I'll try using the pins again as I only used them once in this brass. As Lumpy said, they may add a cushioning affect as well. I wasn't as worried about the insides after the first cleaning, so didn't hassle with the pins again. They work real nice for cleaning old and range brass.

How much Dawn are you using? I thought I read a while back that Dawn wasn't great for use on brass but don't remember the particulars!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Those look real nice Griff, I'll try using the pins again as I only used them once in this brass. As Lumpy said, they may add a cushioning affect as well. I wasn't as worried about the insides after the first cleaning, so didn't hassle with the pins again. They work real nice for cleaning old and range brass.

How much Dawn are you using? I thought I read a while back that Dawn wasn't great for use on brass but don't remember the particulars!

1 or 2 large drops of Dawn

[Shawnee Hills]

5 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

The first 4 pix show the mouths, if enlarged you can see how the crimp is rolled over and somewhat flattened and the edge is brittle and turns to filings once belled and crimped again. the last photo shows the filing when I empty the Akro Bin out on the bench to case check them.

Couldn't for the life of me add text to the pictures!!

The pics suggest to me that your crimp die might be causing this.  Yes, I'm kind of spit-balling because I've never seen rough case mouths after wet tumbling with pins combined with a dash of Lemonshine and two tablespoons of Dawn in a Rebel 17 tumbler.

 

How old is the brass?  Is it possible that it's been reloaded so many times that annealing is needed?   

[Griff]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

1 or 2 large drops of Dawn

If that's a question... I use about 2 tablespoons, but... never really measure.