Last Call Saul Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) I just acquired a pocket pistol in 38 short colt and bought 100 rounds to use with it and to reload. I'm looking for a good recipe, preferably using HP-38 or Titegroup under the 125gr bullet I use for my 38 spl. I plan to load them on my single stage RCBS using 38/357 lee dies. any issues? Edited September 22 by Last Call Saul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Hodgdon has loads for .38 Short Colt driving 93 and 135 grain bullets using HP-38 and Titegroup. Maybe you can work something out from that data, keeping things on the low side. I've used the data from .45 ACP to load .45 Cowboy Special, keeping on the lower end of the charge range. YMMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 The first issue that pops to my mind is, is that a smokeless powder gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted September 22 Author Share Posted September 22 (edited) Iver Johnson. Was not told that it was a black powder only. Shot 50 rounds through it already Edited September 22 by Last Call Saul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103 Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 There are times when I wished I had a bushel basket of Hebrew shekels so I could pay the Witch of Endor to get something to talk. This venerable old veteran is one such item I'd bet could tell some tales! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Pull the grips. Coil mainspring is a smokeless frame. Leaf main spring is black powder. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 52 minutes ago, Alpo said: Pull the grips. Coil mainspring is a smokeless frame. Leaf main spring is black powder. It's a coil spring. Also, after some research, it looks like it is not in 38 Short Colt but more likely in 38 S&W. I could only find the 38 Short Colt ammo at the gun shop, and they said it would work in the revolver, which it did. However, I had a few off-center strikes that failed to fire—about 4-5 in 50 rounds. I wonder if it was because 38 short colt is smaller in diameter than 38 S&W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 I wondered about that "Iver Johnson chambered in short Colt". All I had ever heard of were 38 Smith & Wesson, but I'm not an Iver Johnson expert. If you've got calipers, a 38 short Colt chamber should be 0.379 - same as a 38 Special. A 38 Smith & Wesson chamber should be 0.385. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 That sucks. I bought it from the flea market at Gunsmoke, and the seller told me that the gun shop there had the ammo and that I could load it using 38 spl dies, so I assumed it was in short colt... I am not going to get another set of dies, shell holders, and brass—it would be practically the same cost as the revolver. Is it safe to use the 38 short colt in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Many people do. I won't go so far as to say it's safe, but many people do it. The brass is going to swell, and may rupture. Also accuracy might be pretty bad, since 38 Smith & Wesson uses a 363 bullet instead of a 358 like a 38 special. How often do you think you would be going to shoot this? Might be money ahead to just buy a box of ammo every now and then. If you wish to reload it, you could probably get by with just buying a new sizing die, and belling and seating with your special dies. The shell holder is the same. The correct bullet diameter is difficult to find, so I load mine with a regular 38 Special 148 hollow base wadcutter. I seat it to the depth of a regular bullet, and use load data for 145 grain round nose. The hollow skirt of the bullet expands and grabs the rifling, and they are quite accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 I am going only to shoot it at the side matches. I was able to hit a 24" target, 5 feet away, so I guess accuracy is good enough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Lee sells a good set of dies for 38 S&W. No more ammo than you are likely to load set them up for use in a single stage press. An inexpensive Lee breech-Lock makes it easy to change dies. I have one in 32 S&W short. Use a Lee hand press that I clamp into my gun vice. Can load 50 rounds in about an hour. Enough to last a few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 (edited) I picked up some 38 SC for an experiment, but have not loaded them yet. Hodgdon Online and Quickload both have loads for this cartridge. PSI upper limit runs around 11,500 PSI with typical fast powders. 6,000 PSI with trail boss. Proper obturation will require very soft cast lead bullets at BHN=9 and lower. Edited September 24 by bgavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted September 24 Author Share Posted September 24 yeah. I gave up on SC. will write it off and sell the brass after I am done with it. I got the dies and the brass for the 38S&w. now I just need to find correct bullets, or maybe just use my 38 spl 125 gr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 In my mind, the 38 SC is the equivalent of the 44 Russian in a different caliber. I also find that one can have too many different cartridges and loads. Sometimes just a rope and tire attached to a tree is a better solution than a fancy swing with many seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 1 hour ago, Last Call Saul said: yeah. I gave up on SC. will write it off and sell the brass after I am done with it. I got the dies and the brass for the 38S&w. now I just need to find correct bullets, or maybe just use my 38 spl 125 gr Your 38 special bullets are too small in diameter nd will not work properly. 38 Special bore is .357. 38 S&W bore is .361 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 As I said earlier, with that size bullet they won't be accurate. But A friend of mine was shooting my super Blackhawk. At 50 feet. When we pulled in the target, the group was about 8 inches, and it was obvious that the bullets had been key holing. WTH?? Then he started unloading the gun, and out came these five "split from mouth to rim" 357 cases. Yep, that'll do it. Those 36 caliber bullets got sent down that 43 caliber hole. But he still hit the paper with all five shots. So shooting 357 bullets in a 38 Smith & Wesson will not be accurate. But if you're using it for pocket pistol side matches, the target's going to be close enough that it probably should not matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 True but leading of the barrel and forcing cone will be a real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminole Sam Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 On 9/24/2024 at 8:59 AM, Last Call Saul said: yeah. I gave up on SC. will write it off and sell the brass after I am done with it. I got the dies and the brass for the 38S&w. now I just need to find correct bullets, or maybe just use my 38 spl 125 gr The answer is to use pure lead cast HBWC. I have to do this in my 1858 Remington conversion. That bore is .375, you will have no trouble in a .361. I take it you do not cast. I have to make those. Purchased ones are intended for .38 Special and are not pure lead, and in .38 S&W there may not be enough powder, but then you also do not need them to expand anywhere near as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 quick question , is the 38 short colt just a short version of the long colt or was it similar dimensions to the 38 S&W ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted October 4 Author Share Posted October 4 (edited) 10 minutes ago, watab kid said: quick question , is the 38 short colt just a short version of the long colt or was it similar dimensions to the 38 S&W ? It's smaller diameter than 38 SW and the same diameter as 38 spl. Edited October 4 by Last Call Saul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted October 4 Author Share Posted October 4 I got proper .361 diameter bullets and loaded 50 true 38 s&w rounds. Will test this weekend 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 31 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said: It's smaller diameter than 38 SW and the same diameter as 38 spl. ok , thats what i suspected , i have nothing that shoots them so i didnt know , i have guns that shoot 38 long and 38 S&W and 38 s*w spcl , just not 38 short colt , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 13 hours ago, Last Call Saul said: I got proper .361 diameter bullets and loaded 50 true 38 s&w rounds. Will test this weekend Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 4 Share Posted October 4 15 hours ago, Last Call Saul said: I got proper .361 diameter bullets and loaded 50 true 38 s&w rounds. Will test this weekend im still shooting my inventory in my webleys but ive saved brass and am setting up dies to reload .....also setting up for 455 webleys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 22 hours ago, watab kid said: quick question , is the 38 short colt just a short version of the long colt or was it similar dimensions to the 38 S&W ? Originally 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt utilized a Heeled bullet. It was designed for 36 cal C&B pistols converted to shoot cartridges so the bullet was larger in diameter (.375") that matched the barrel. Modern 38 Short Colt is nothing more than a shortened 38 Special. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: Originally 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt utilized a Heeled bullet. It was designed for 36 cal C&B pistols converted to shoot cartridges so the bullet was larger in diameter (.375") that matched the barrel. Modern 38 Short Colt is nothing more than a shortened 38 Special. thank you that puts perspective to the cartridge , while i have a colt that shoots 38 long colt in my military collection , i was unaware of those that shoot 38 short colt so made the leap to 38 s&w , those im also familiar with in my military collection , im not sure if id use a short 38 spcl , but good to know they exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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