Jack Spade Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I picked up a top break chambered in 38 s&w and would like to know what smokeless loads you guys are using in the pocket pistol side matches. Yes I know the difference between a 38 special and 38 s&w. Yes I have dies and reloading components. Not really interested in shooting black powder. I have just about any powder that might be recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 You need to find FIRST if the top break is modern enough to handle smokeless. Many were built in the BP era and they quickly shoot loose even with light smokeless. Tell us what you have for an iron. Be aware, we might just have to recommend BP or APP if the gun is old. GJ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Spade Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 So from info I could find on the web it looks like the one I have is a black powder gun. It is an Iver Johnson. The owl on the grips faces forward, has the long cylinder leads and a leaf hammer spring. The guy I got it from owned it for years and shot a lot of side matches with it and used light smokeless loads. Serial number indicates it was made between 1909-1919. I have some black powder, APP and 777 so that might be fun too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Bob Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 This is from the 44th ed of Lyman I know it's a black powder gun but it might get you started in the right direction. or you might just drill out the cases and put a shotgun primer in them and no powder, I have some wax bullet cartridges that are like that, not sure on the pressure though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbit Joe #414 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) Yow-Ho Jack Spade: In my Derringer .38special, I use .38 short Colt with 90gr bullet with 1.8gr Clays powder. Derringer Barrel is 2 3/4" On some other times I shoot those also in .38 pistols using 110 gr bullet with 1.8grs Clays powder. Pistol Barrel 4 5/8". All works great. Also Note: Starline Brass is what I use. Edited February 24 by Jackrabbit Joe #414 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Unique ! Enough Said 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Quote It is an Iver Johnson. The owl on the grips faces forward, has the long cylinder leads and a leaf hammer spring. Yes, those are all characteristics of a BP Iver Johnson top break. I've got two....and if they get shot, it's only with BP. They both are slightly loose from previous owners doing just what your previous owner did - shot them with light smokeless loads. Smokeless has a much different pressure curve than does BP - spikes up high and fast. good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Timber SASS #19724Life Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I use 1.5 grains of Bullseye and a 125 tc bullet . I’ve been shooting this load for side matches for over 20 years with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Yes, those are all characteristics of a BP Iver Johnson top break. I've got two....and if they get shot, it's only with BP. They both are slightly loose from previous owners doing just what your previous owner did - shot them with light smokeless loads. Smokeless has a much different pressure curve than does BP - spikes up high and fast. good luck, GJ I hates BP, but I agree with GJ on this one, for the reasons he stated, and the reputation of the Iver Johnson top breaks. I believe that if I were loading for an IJ top break, it would be with only with BP. A young shooter at our club has an antique top break, and loads only BP, and it just keeps on running, meet after meet. BP and a light(ish) bullet cast of soft(ish) lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 My Iver Johnson is a later one that is good for smokeless, and it works just fine. Even won a pocket pistol side match with it. But I still shoot mild loads in it. There are other safe for smokeless top breaks, but the early IJs are not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 7:16 AM, Jack Spade said: So from info I could find on the web it looks like the one I have is a black powder gun. It is an Iver Johnson. The owl on the grips faces forward, has the long cylinder leads and a leaf hammer spring. The guy I got it from owned it for years and shot a lot of side matches with it and used light smokeless loads. Serial number indicates it was made between 1909-1919. I have some black powder, APP and 777 so that might be fun too! If the gun was made after 1900, it MAY be made fro smokeless powder. The IJ guns were decent guns [yes, I am a S&W snob]. Do some more checking, but you can always do your own BP loads and that way you KNOW it is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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