New Cimarron 1887 12ga.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

2 hours ago, Tommy Reb said:

Hello Brimstone.  Thanks for checking this out.  I sure hope you are correct.  Looks like the one Deuce had would not.  However, individual guns might differ just enough to make it possible.    I'll look forward to hearing back from you.

 

Good point.  I know the mag tube on Chiappa's are the same length regardless of barrel length, but I have no idea about the Cimarron version.  Hopefully Brimstone will let us know what the barrel length was on the one he handled.

 

TR

 

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

Here is this particular stock gun with these particular (maybe short?)dummy shells with 6 in the tube/ carrier.

 

[DeaconKC]

Thanks @Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 my shop went ahead and ordered a couple this morning due to your report!

[Griff]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:39 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well, if you wanna do that, you need one that looks like this...

 

This one was made by Chiappa.

Not SASS Legal for some reason, but some clubs will let you use them at a local.  BTW, I got a conventual stock for it give me a "two in one" package.  Very nice.

In my unofficial interpretation of the rules, there's no mystery... not legal as a SASS handgun because it is not a single action revolver, the only handguns allowed as main match handguns.  Nor as a main match shotgun, as it is not a shoulder fired firearm.  I.e., not a "long gun".  The Winchester 1887 didn't leave the factory in this configuration, so it isn't a replica of a period firearm.

[Sedalia Dave]

10 hours ago, Brimstone Bill Willson said:

Here is this stock gun with these particular dummy shells with 6 in the tube/ carrier.

 

 

Problem is those Dummy Rounds are shorter than a loaded AA round.  While the difference seems small when you multiply it time 6 shells the difference is almost 1/2" ( 0.074 * 6 = 0.444" ) This is about the total thickness of the coils Deuce removed from the mag tube spring in his other video.

 

I'm betting you cannot get 6 factory AA rounds in your 87.

 

Another thing to consider is that loaded AA rounds are slightly shorter than a loaded STS round. The difference is about the same as the difference between your dummy rounds and the factory AAs

 

 

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

5 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Problem is those Dummy Rounds are shorter than a loaded AA round.  While the difference seems small when you multiply it time 6 shells the difference is almost 1/2" ( 0.074 * 6 = 0.444" ) This is about the total thickness of the coils Deuce removed from the mag tube spring in his other video.

 

I'm betting you cannot get 6 factory AA rounds in your 87.

 

Another thing to consider is that loaded AA rounds are slightly shorter than a loaded STS round. The difference is about the same as the difference between your dummy rounds and the factory AAs

 

 

You might be right, that is why I included the OAL on those shells.  I didn't realize those dummies where a little short.  I also didn't have time to measure other shells and didn't want to load live rounds in it last night.  I'll investigate it more this weekend.

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

Okay, curiosity got to me.  I measured all my various shells and other than some oddball Wolf brand, Winchester AA has the shortest OAL of my 2 3/4" shells.

I also figured out how to safely unload the tube without clambering a shell so I could test live ammo.  It would not load 6 AA's in the tube/ carrier .  So if you roll your own keep your OAL under 2.200".

I was able to get a total of 6 with combination of 4 AA's and 2 Kent brand 2 1/2" shells.

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:44 AM, Griff said:

In my unofficial interpretation of the rules, there's no mystery... not legal as a SASS handgun because it is not a single action revolver, the only handguns allowed as main match handguns.  Nor as a main match shotgun, as it is not a shoulder fired firearm.  I.e., not a "long gun".  The Winchester 1887 didn't leave the factory in this configuration, so it isn't a replica of a period firearm.

 

Well, it IS a 12 gauge shotgun, so there's no way it could even remotely be legal as a main match pistol. 
 

 

[Shawnee Hills]

3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Well, it IS a 12 gauge shotgun, so there's no way it could even remotely be legal as a main match pistol. 
 

 

Actually, I believe those are classed as “other” so not a “shotgun”.

[DeaconKC]

5 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Well, it IS a 12 gauge shotgun, so there's no way it could even remotely be legal as a main match pistol. 
 

 

If you used slugs, they are rimmed cartridges....hmmm.....Magtech brass hulls......

[Ashley D Austin]

This piece brings up some interesting questions.

 

First it is illegal to load six rounds in a shotgun in NJ, the shot gun needs to be modified with a plug to limit it to 5 rounds.

 

Second, I have seen shooters load six in a shotgun and move with live shells in the gun instead of reloading at each position. What is the rule on moving and shooting like this?

[July Smith]

29 minutes ago, Ashley D Austin said:

I have seen shooters load six in a shotgun and move with live shells in the gun instead of reloading at each position. What is the rule on moving and shooting like this?

 

From pg 15 of the handbook "A shotgun is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage) in the following conditions only: - Action open, round in chamber or on carrier. - Hammer(s) fully down on an empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed."

 

If stage instructions allow for stoking the gun on the clock, one could stoke the 87 on the run (walk) to the shotgun position.