Skullbone Willie Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) EDITED !!! I have close to 20lbs of Winchester 572 leftover from my Competition Skeet days. Anyone using it in 38’s with a 105gn and a 130gn bullet ? The Hodgon Reloading web site lists 5.1 as a minimum charge with a 105gr slug. I loaded up 20 at 4.8gn and they were very erratic so I’ve loaded up another 20 with 5.5gn to see if that will be better. Been using Titegroup and you get to light of a charge it gets very erratic also but it’s about gone and would like to use the 572 powder I have on hand. #######Ok, after posting this I loaded another 20 at 5.2 gn and they were also somewhat erratic, 5.5gn shot pretty dang good. It is pretty cold here today at 38 degrees and I know some powders are tempsture sensitive########## Edited January 4 by Skullbone Willie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I'm thinking you made a typo when you said you were going to try 5.5gr. Per Hodgdon, their minimum of 5.1 gr with the 105 bullet gives 689 fps. Sounds pretty good to me, I'd try that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Nothing unusual about a real light cowboy load being erratic and even sticking bullets in the forcing cone and barrel. I agree once again with Abilene's comments about using the min published load - you can work down from there if you are careful. good luck, GJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 If you're testing various loads for 572, as above, start at the minimum and then load 20 or so at one tenth increments up to the max at 5.6 grs. Going below the minimum as you mentioned will result in erratic performance and increasing the load to the minimum or one or two tenths higher will be unnoticeable. Twenty pounds of 572 at 5.2 grs, for example, will result in over 26,900 rounds. Five grains will result in 28,000 rounds. Probably way more than most CAS shooters will ever need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbone Willie Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 26 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: If you're testing various loads for 572, as above, start at the minimum and then load 20 or so at one tenth increments up to the max at 5.6 grs. Going below the minimum as you mentioned will result in erratic performance and increasing the load to the minimum or one or two tenths higher will be unnoticeable. Twenty pounds of 572 at 5.2 grs, for example, will result in over 26,900 rounds. Five grains will result in 28,000 rounds. Probably way more than most CAS shooters will ever need. I’m retired and shoot a lot, I’ll go thru it in 2 to 3 years 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbone Willie Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I'm thinking you made a typo when you said you were going to try 5.5gr. Per Hodgdon, their minimum of 5.1 gr with the 105 bullet gives 689 fps. Sounds pretty good to me, I'd try that. 5.2 was also erratic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Skullbone Willie said: 5.2 was also erratic tighter crimp and magnum primers IMHO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbone Willie Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 18 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: tighter crimp and magnum primers IMHO I’m using Federal Small Pistol Primers and a very tight crimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Confirm your scale calibration. You sure this powder isn't contaminated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I know you can't change the powder by waving a wand, but it's way slow for a light gallery load like a cowboy match gun. 572 is right next to Blue Dot. Perhaps you can trade the stuff for some TiteGroup or Clay Dot or Promo? It really won't burn WELL until it's making upwards of 18,000 PSI like a 9 MM or 357 full power load. good luck, GJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Stuart #65654 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 May be the 105 grain bullets. My USFA's will not shoot those light 105 gr. bullets. The lightest they'll shoot well is 125 gr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Skullbone Willie said: I’m using Federal Small Pistol Primers and a very tight crimp. Try a magnum primer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said: May be the 105 grain bullets. My USFA's will not shoot those light 105 gr. bullets. The lightest they'll shoot well is 125 gr. What?? Edited January 4 by Texas Jack Black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Stuart #65654 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: What?? What didn't you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 You say your guns will not shoot 105 Gr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Winchester 572 with a 105 gr Lead bullet 5.1 starting load delivers 689 vel. at 13,000 and Max is 5.6 at 944 at a 16,000 vel. Works in all my revolvers and I have no issues with it. I do use a Magnum primer. Best Wishes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 hours ago, Skullbone Willie said: EDITED !!! I have close to 20lbs of Winchester 572 leftover from my Competition Skeet days. Anyone using it in 38’s with a 105gn and a 130gn bullet ? The Hodgon Reloading web site lists 5.1 as a minimum charge with a 105gr slug. I loaded up 20 at 4.8gn and they were very erratic so I’ve loaded up another 20 with 5.5gn to see if that will be better. Been using Titegroup and you get to light of a charge it gets very erratic also but it’s about gone and would like to use the 572 powder I have on hand. #######Ok, after posting this I loaded another 20 at 5.2 gn and they were also somewhat erratic, 5.5gn shot pretty dang good. It is pretty cold here today at 38 degrees and I know some powders are tempsture sensitive########## Define erratic please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Stuart #65654 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: You say your guns will not shoot 105 Gr Correct, my handguns are very inaccurate with 105's. Five inch 5 shot groups at 15 yds. With 125 or 158 they will shoot 1 1/4 inch 5 shot groups. Rifle shoots 105's with no problems 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 17 minutes ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said: Correct, my handguns are very inaccurate with 105's. Five inch 5 shot groups at 15 yds. With 125 or 158 they will shoot 1 1/4 inch 5 shot groups. Rifle shoots 105's with no problems That sounds like load/gun combo problem, more than just bullet weight issue. Could be bullet dia to groove fit, twist rate issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbone Willie Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 15 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: Define erratic please. Lots of different sounds, poof, bang, puff, bang, poof and I’ll ad that I weighed every powder charge…… I’ll try some 130’s tomorrow to how that goes. Edited January 5 by Skullbone Willie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Stuart #65654 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Griff said: That sounds like load/gun combo problem, more than just bullet weight issue. Could be bullet dia to groove fit, twist rate issues. Exactly, load/gun combo problem, with the problem being the light bullet weight. The only thing that is changed is the bullet weight, rest of the load is the same, including the diameter. Same powder, powder charge and primer produce excellent groups with the 125 and 158 bullets. In 50 years of reloading, this tells me that there is something about the 105 gr. bullet that my guns don't like, so I don't use them. The only reason I mentioned it to the OP is that not every revolver will shoot a certain type of bullet well, maybe try a different bullet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 10 hours ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said: Exactly, load/gun combo problem, with the problem being the light bullet weight. The only thing that is changed is the bullet weight, rest of the load is the same, including the diameter. Same powder, powder charge and primer produce excellent groups with the 125 and 158 bullets. In 50 years of reloading, this tells me that there is something about the 105 gr. bullet that my guns don't like, so I don't use them. The only reason I mentioned it to the OP is that not every revolver will shoot a certain type of bullet well, maybe try a different bullet. Your rifles & pistols may have different twist rates, thereby negated all the similar factors. MV also plays an important factor. I have a set in 45 with the exact opposite problem, bullets work great in handguns, lousy in the rifle. Or at least in that rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) You are making the most common mistake done by a lot of people that reload. You are failing to take into account the bullets profile when working up a load. If you keep down this path you are going to blow up a firearm and potentially hurt yourself or a bystander. You CANNOT just look at bullet weight when working up a load. You have to take into consideration the bullet profile and how it effects case volume. Case in point. The 105 load data is for a very long all copper hollow point bullet. When loaded to the proper OAL a SIGNIFICANT portion of the bullet is inside the case resulting in less case volume than what you would have with a short cast lead 105 gr bullet. W-572 is a slow powder and is not intended for mouse fart loads. All that erratic behavior you are experiencing is a clear warning sign that you are in dangerous territory and to stop. Notice the vastly different minimum loads for two bullets with the same weight but different profiles and construction. Yet the velocities are nearly identical. Here is an even more extreme example. Notice the starting loads vary by 0.9 grains but the velocities are nearly the same. while chamber pressures are are significantly different. Again this is due to how the bullet profile impacts case volume. To put it bluntly you need a better understanding of how to work up a load. Edited January 5 by Sedalia Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.