Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 This is one of the discussion items in the eot territorial Governor meeting Quote Item #3: Shooting Gunfighter style in Age based categoriesSimilar to the current ability to shoot Gunfighter in B-Western, a discussion was had regardingthe allowance of shooting Gunfighter in the Age based categories as well. (ie: Junior, Wrangler,49er, Senior, etc.) – the discussion split into several questions to consider:-Allowing it in all categories: Discussion around weakening the integrity of the GF category-possibly deeming it irrelevant. One thing that was not listed... By allowing participants in age-based categories to shoot in a gunfighter style, this would allow folks who have adjustable site revolvers to shoot in the gunfighter style. As it stands, duelists shooting adjustable site revolvers have a place to go, but gunfighters do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Thanks for sharing. This has been a long time coming. Hopefully it'll be approved. I do disagree that it will diminish the GF category. Signing up as a GF, requires the shooter to always shoot that style, rather than by choice based on the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Duelist categories were not diminished nor have they become irrelevant by allowing the age based categories to shoot duelist style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Who knows, if the powers they be were to allow GF style in the age based categories, you might just see some folks having a little fun with it, and smiling….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Who knows, if the powers they be were to allow GF at Lyle in the age based categories, you might just see some folks having a little fun with it, and smiling….. No smiling allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The only real argument I can see against it is that it would be a tool that would allow some of the fastest categories in the game to become a little faster. And we all know that there are more than a few who definitely don’t want to allow that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 I do not want it to be said that there would not be unintended consequences of making a rule change like this. We all know that some people did not think all the way through to the end result when we made the changes to the cocked rifle moving from the loading table to the line rule, and how other rules would still apply even with the rule change. By allowing people in age-based categories to shoot in any style at their discretion, a couple penalties would go away for people shooting in age base categories. For instance, this what's the call situation would go away. If that happened, then people shooting in duelist style categories would be the only ones penalized for having two loaded revolvers in hand at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Removing penalties that seemed (at least to me) to be arbitrary isn't a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said: Removing penalties that seemed (at least to me) to be arbitrary isn't a bad thing. Yes, although that penalty would likely still need to stay in place for the duelist and classic cowboy categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: duelist and classic cowboy categories. Any duelist style category (like frontiersman, too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Any duelist style category (like frontiersman, too) Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Can somebody recall for us, and this discussion, the original reasoning in separating the styles? Somebody evidently felt it was desirable or needed. What was the logic that has stood for so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 @Smokestack SASS#87384Where have we seen that confusion lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: Can somebody recall for us, and this discussion, the original reasoning in separating the styles? Somebody evidently felt it was desirable or needed. What was the logic that has stood for so long? That has been going on for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Yes, although that penalty would likely still need to stay in place for the duelist and classic cowboy categories. Why? I didn't ever quite follow the reasoning for it in the first place. It seemed very arbitrary, like a way to (for lack of a better way to phrase it) protect the integrity of the GF category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Doc Shapiro said: Why? I didn't ever quite follow the reasoning for it in the first place. It seemed very arbitrary, like a way to (for lack of a better way to phrase it) protect the integrity of the GF category. I'm not going to disagree with you, but if a duelist can have two loaded guns in hand at the same time, what separates them from a gunfighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said: Why? I didn't ever quite follow the reasoning for it in the first place. It seemed very arbitrary, like a way to (for lack of a better way to phrase it) protect the integrity of the GF category. Because without it, differentiating between a duelist only category and a gunfighter inclusive category would become nearly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Because without it, differentiating between a duelist only category and a gunfighter inclusive category would become nearly impossible. It's a difference of alternating between 2 guns vs. shooting one dry before switching. Just requires a little clarity on the Duelist rules to make that clear. But this isn't an argument I'm going to fight. It's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Doc Shapiro said: It's a difference of alternating between 2 guns vs. shooting one dry before switching. Just requires a little clarity on the Duelist rules to make that clear. But this isn't an argument I'm going to fight. It's not worth it. Ok, but there is no requirement that a gunfighter alternate their shots and it is currently allowed that a duelist or traditional shooter may alternate their shots so…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Ok, but there is no requirement that a gunfighter alternate their shots and it is currently allowed that a duelist or traditional shooter may alternate their shots so…. As I said, I'm not going to fight this fight. Happy to discuss it over a libation some time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Unintended consequences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Doc Shapiro said: As I said, I'm not going to fight this fight. Happy to discuss it over a libation some time though. Oh, I wasn’t fighting. Sorry if you took it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Unintended consequences... And those will always be a concern. A good reason that I personally feel more discussion prior to rule changes than what we’ve been seeing as of late would have a positive impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Oh, I wasn’t fighting. Sorry if you took it that way. I didn't, so no worries there. Just don't want to get into it on the Wire. Things have a way of blowing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 30 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Any duelist style category (like frontiersman, too) ....and traditional shooters. Same rule goes for them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: ....and traditional shooters. Same rule goes for them too. If you allowed shooters in age base categories to shoot in any style including gunfighter at their discretion, there would be no prohibition against them having two loaded revolvers in hand at any time. However... He kind of has a point... One would assume that the frontier cartridge category would still not allow gunfighter style. At least it was not addressed in the motion brought up at the TG meeting. And if not, that category would also still have a Prohibition against having two loaded revolvers in hand as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: If you allowed shooters in age base categories to shoot in any style including gunfighter at their discretion, there would be no prohibition against them having two loaded revolvers in hand at any time. Sorry I meant any age based traditional category that did not specifically allow gunfighter style could not have 2 out. Are we talking buckaroo shooting gunfighter as well? 4 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: However... He kind of has a point... One would assume that the frontier cartridge category would still not allow gunfighter style. At least it was not addressed in the motion brought up at the TG meeting. And if not, that category would also still have a Prohibition against having two loaded revolvers in hand as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: Sorry I meant any age based traditional category that did not specifically allow gunfighter style could not have 2 out. Are we talking buckaroo shooting gunfighter as well? This is the entirety of the item we are talking about from the TG meeting at eot Quote Item #3: Shooting Gunfighter style in Age based categories Similar to the current ability to shoot Gunfighter in B-Western, a discussion was had regarding the allowance of shooting Gunfighter in the Age based categories as well. (ie: Junior, Wrangler, 49er, Senior, etc.) – the discussion split into several questions to consider: - Allowing it in all categories : Discussion around weakening the integrity of the GF category- possibly deeming it irrelevant. OR - Allowing it in Junior category (not Buckaroo/Buckarette – Junior Girl/Junior Boy only): To provide a nurturing and encouraging environment for Junior shooters while they are “coming into their own” and could possibly be allowed to shoot numerous shooting styles within the Junior category. Discussion surrounding safety -additional safety supervision is already in place by the parent/guardian- as well as fellow shooters at the Junior Shooter level. Allowing it in the Junior category would also eliminate the expansion of current Shooting style categories to include (protected) Junior categories in the shooting style categories; causing strain on sanctioned matches and match producers with an already full category listing. Action Item: The RO Committee will coordinate with SASS officials to establish the proposed verbiage and present the item to the TG body for a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: This is the entirety of the item we are talking about from the TG meeting at eot Just seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacherman Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Hey, I'm a gunfighter and would like to shoot gunfighter in frontiersman and classic cowboy too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Preacherman said: Hey, I'm a gunfighter and would like to shoot gunfighter in frontiersman and classic cowboy too! Heck, everybody can shoot duelist might as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 If we're not careful and mention frontiersmen one more time, someone is apt to jump into this thread and exclaim, "Leave frontiersman alone." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I switched to B-Western last year so that I can shoot GF when I wish, typically on a stage that is GF friendly. I get more than a few remarks and looks as I tend to shoot about a third of the stages as a GFer. I don't recommend if your feelings are gonna be bruised when someone calls you a gamer. Spotters tend to have major problems if they are not expecting you to shoot GF on some stages. I now make an announcement when doing so. I think that the benefit of shooting various pistol styles is offset by being limited to slower rifle styles. Not sure that I support this new change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacherman Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 A gunfighter must shoot the stage in the same order as everybody else. If spotters are watching you they're not watching the targets. If they're watching the targets they should notice absolutely no difference in the bang and clangs. The gunfighter perception issue from others is just in the mind. Gunfighter for everything! Yea ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Laredo Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Our Club has just approved a local modification to the Cowboy/Cowgirl categories. Any SASS shooting style allowed, which includes Gunfighter. Allows the shooter to choose the shooting style based on what works best for them on each different stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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