The next device to be banned by the ATF

[Buckshot Bob]

While I would strictly consider this a range toy , I admire the ability of the American entrepreneur to find a solution. I’m guessing these guys will sell a bunch of these . To me it actually looks more practical than a bump stock 

https://bumpfinger.com

[Sixgun Sheridan]

It will still be banned in WA, as our leftist lawmakers were smart enough to ban ANYTHING that increases the rate of fire of a semi-auto. Even bump-firing with your belt loop is illegal if the cops catch you doing it.

[Buckshot Bob]

4 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

It will still be banned in WA, as our leftist lawmakers were smart enough to ban ANYTHING that increases the rate of fire of a semi-auto. Even bump-firing with your belt loop is illegal if the cops catch you doing it.

I guess they better ban nails and shoe laces . I’ve seen people put a nail in a fence post and do the same thing. There will be prints of this all over the internet shortly for people who want to make their own . Probably even scaled for hand size 
Things are getting too easy to produce for the government to be able to ban it with many things 

Look how cheaply you can make your own AR lower , or lowers now 

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Well, WA banned "ghost guns" as well so I guess if I ever get caught with a block of aluminum in my garage I'm in deep trouble.

 

There was a talking bobble-head in one of our local papers saying that only single-shot hunting guns should be allowed. If the ATF and its minions can't stop bumps stocks, binary triggers, ghost guns and "giggle switches" from being distributed they just may try to pull a Beto O'Rourke on us.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Sorry guys....I can see no LEGITIMATE use for this. Sure you can shoot a lot of ammo at the range and have a lot of fun, BUT so can someone with something else on their mind not so legal. Al this does is pour gas on the smouldering fire and get the anti's all worked up. Sorry....we are own worst enemy.

 

I know some of you will rant away at me........................so rant away. 

 

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

In my view the entire NFA is unconstitutional. Having said that, until it gets struck from the books I also see no good in trying to poke the bear by exploiting legal loopholes.

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Sorry guys....I can see no LEGITIMATE use for this. Sure you can shoot a lot of ammo at the range and have a lot of fun, BUT so can someone with something else on their mind not so legal. Al this does is pour gas on the smouldering fire and get the anti's all worked up. Sorry....we are own worst enemy.

 

I know some of you will rant away at me........................so rant away. 

 

 

That’s the same attitude anti gun people have about guns . Someone can use a saa or a lever gun for fun at the range or something illegal , how much damage could a good cowboy shooter do with his slicked up SXS and a trap pouch full of slugs and buckshot? It doesn’t matter if this gets them worked up . They still want to make all guns illegal, the worst thing we can do as gun owners is to be on the defense. We should be working to repeal things like the 34 and 68 gun control acts . Not just hope we can hold on to what we have .

Things like this push back against the anti gunners to put them on defense and show how ridiculous the gun laws are in the first place 

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

In my view the entire NFA is unconstitutional. Having said that, until it gets struck from the books I also see no good in trying to poke the bear by exploiting legal loopholes.

I agree with the NFA being unconstitutional, but how do you ever get it repealed or shut down if you don’t show how ineffective it is ? Like every other gun law it’s only effective on the law abiding. Personally I like that people are pushing back , and they aren’t doing anything illegal. What’s illegal is bureaucracy making law . That’s what the legislature is for , but apparently the pandemic isn’t driving that home to enough people 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

 At some point, we have to quit poking the not-so-sleeping lions.  It's pretty hard to put any 2A spin on these kinds of play toys.  And the more that they are perceived to be DIY and uncontrollable, as alluded here, the more likely they are to seed more believable anti-gun lies and bring loud calls for deeper governmental "infringement". 

 

These innovative folks and their gimmick inventions do lawful gun owners no favors in the end game.  Push Beto and his huge, moneyed  anti-gun following hard enough and they will quickly figure out how to make it litigious and costly for anybody to produce primers or loaded ammo for civilian consumption.     

 

[Buckshot Bob]

The anti gunners are coming for you guns no matter what you do , giving in to their wishes has never got gun owners anywhere. If everyone had been afraid to “poke the bear” we would not have concealed carry and constitutional carry in as many states as we do . My whole life compromise meant we got new gun laws , we never got rid of any . Compromise would have never got us the Heller decision and we wouldn’t be in the Supreme Court right now going after NY . We should go after them every chance we get just like they do to gun owners every chance they get . Every time something bad happens with a gun they liken every gun owner to a bunch of degenerate criminals. It’s about time they are called out on their lies 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

1 minute ago, Buckshot Bob said:

The anti gunners are coming for you guns no matter what you do , giving in to their wishes has never got gun owners anywhere. If everyone had been afraid to “poke the bear” we would not have concealed carry and constitutional carry in as many states as we do . My whole life compromise meant we got new gun laws , we never got rid of any . Compromise would have never got us the Heller decision and we wouldn’t be in the Supreme Court right now going after NY . We should go after them every chance we get just like they do to gun owners every chance they get . Every time something bad happens with a gun they liken every gun owner to a bunch of degenerate criminals. It’s about time they are called out on their lies 

Please don't bend this into a 2A discussion.  The subject toy has zero to do with 2A, or Heller, or McDonald or NY, or any other legit 2A issue.  It has nothing to do with our basic right to keep and bear arms.  It is little more than another cute way to misuse a legal firearm to skirt  existing laws. 

 

You're correct that the anti-gunners will try to take our guns whether or not we compromise.  But in the end, it isn't about them.  It is about not alienating or unnecessarily scaring the millions of folks who still AGREE with us.  When we lose those numbers, the contest will be over.  The only way we can lose them is by acting irresponsibly or immaturely in the way we keep and use our firearms, to the point that they start to fear us.  

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

3 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Please don't bend this into a 2A discussion.  The subject toy has zero to do with 2A, or Heller, or McDonald or NY, or any other legit 2A issue.  It has nothing to do with our basic right to keep and bear arms.  It is little more than another cute way to misuse a legal firearm to skirt  existing laws. 

 

You're correct that the anti-gunners will try to take our guns whether or not we compromise.  But in the end, it isn't about them.  It is about not alienating or unnecessarily scaring the millions of folks who still AGREE with us.  When we lose those numbers, the contest will be over.  The only way we can lose them is by acting irresponsibly or immaturely in the way we keep and use our firearms, to the point that they start to fear us.  

Well said Pard.

[Buckshot Bob]

Just now, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Please don't bend this into a 2A discussion.  The subject toy has zero to do with 2A, or Heller, or McDonald or NY, or any other legit 2A issue.  It has nothing to do with our basic right to keep and bear arms.  It is little more than another cute way to misuse a legal firearm to skirt  existing laws. 

 

You're correct that the anti-gunners will try to take our guns whether or not we compromise.  But in the end, it isn't about them.  It is about not alienating or unnecessarily scaring the millions of folks who still AGREE with us.  When we lose those numbers, the contest will be over.  The only way we can lose them is by acting irresponsibly or immaturely in the way we keep and use our firearms, to the point that they start to fear us.  

It’s a 2a discussion. It has everything to do with gun rights , the ATF shouldn’t be able to just arbitrarily make up “laws” as they go . That’s what congress Is for . This is no different than “cop killer bullets” or “assault rifles” or “Saturday nite specials” .

The anti gun people are pissed off because they had effectively got rid of full auto fire for the working class people of America. And things like bump stocks and binary triggers bring the rate of fire back up . If it’s truly about gun control why make the manufacturer of machine guns  for sale to the public illegal? Everyone buying one has to be checked out and pay a $200 tax . They did it to price it out of the normal working person’s ability to afford it . And now the normal working guy is pushing back 

 

[John Kloehr]

While all'a'yas been yakkin 'bout dis, went and had look-see.

 

Sold out! 

[Buckshot Bear]

An ingenious device.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Pretty cool!!!

 

On a side not, why do this videos insist on keeping music playing through the whole time!! I can see as an intro but geeez cut it off already!

[Texas Joker]

It is legal to make your own firearm. Ghost gun is a made up FUD word. 

This allows you to make your own gun. Is legal.

 

I can walk naked into lowes and make my own gun and ammo. Most folks can't this helps.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

1 hour ago, Buckshot Bob said:

It’s a 2a discussion. It has everything to do with gun rights , the ATF shouldn’t be able to just arbitrarily make up “laws” as they go . That’s what congress Is for . This is no different than “cop killer bullets” or “assault rifles” or “Saturday nite specials” .

The anti gun people are pissed off because they had effectively got rid of full auto fire for the working class people of America. And things like bump stocks and binary triggers bring the rate of fire back up . If it’s truly about gun control why make the manufacturer of machine guns  for sale to the public illegal? Everyone buying one has to be checked out and pay a $200 tax . They did it to price it out of the normal working person’s ability to afford it . And now the normal working guy is pushing back 

 

So far, I'm unaware of any action on the subject device by ATF.  Did I miss something?

 

Do you see the new gadget playing a big role in self or family protection or in countering an overly oppressive government?  I simply do not see that as a reality.  I think people defending their family will want to aim as accurately as possible.

 

IMO, the device is essentially a range toy, intended to circumvent the existing legal restrictions and permit requirements concerning full auto fire, for those who desire to burn up ammo at a faster rate with little precision. --That is, until some idiot decides to use it to spray random bullets onto a crowd, as earlier occurred with the bump stock.   One spin-off of that unlawful tragedy came almost  a year later, when the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rehearing the California 10-round magazine limit case,  decided it was "Constitutional" and "Appropriate" after all to impose the limit (reversing the holding by three 9th Ct. justices 8 months earlier)  The one unlawful event had consequences affecting all of us. 

 

Heller won his challenge against  restrictions on his right to keep a basic firearm in his home for family defense.    McDonald's challenge extended that affirmative holding to carrying outside the home.  The present challenge before the SCOTUS concerns capricious refusal to issue CCW permits in New York.  

All of those important cases concerned self protection, and the courts upheld that basic right. 

 

 Both Federal and State laws have, for many years, prohibited keeping or use of fully automatic firearms.  The subject rapid-fire device has little to do with any of the basic rights upheld above.  It serves only to circumvent those existing legal prohibitions on full auto, to enable recreation. 

 

I don't expect you to agree, but if you advocate for full auto, then I suggest you come right out and bring forward your own challenges against the prohibition itself, rather than working around the edges with devices intended  to circumvent long existing law, as passed by Congress, not ATF.   But be cautious what Pandora's Boxes you decide to open. 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

32 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

So far, I'm unaware of any action on the subject device by ATF.  Did I miss something?

 

Do you see the new gadget playing a big role in self or family protection or in countering an overly oppressive government?  I simply do not see that as a reality.  I think people defending their family will want to aim as accurately as possible.

 

IMO, the device is essentially a range toy, intended to circumvent the existing legal restrictions and permit requirements concerning full auto fire, for those who desire to burn up ammo at a faster rate with little precision. --That is, until some idiot decides to use it to spray random bullets onto a crowd, as earlier occurred with the bump stock.   One spin-off of that unlawful tragedy came almost  a year later, when the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rehearing the California 10-round magazine limit case,  decided it was "Constitutional" and "Appropriate" after all to impose the limit.  (That was after three 9th Ct. justices had 8 months earlier decided to opposite.)

 

Heller won his challenge against  restrictions on his right to keep a basic firearm in his home for family defense.    McDonald's challenge extended that affirmative holding to carrying outside the home.  The present challenge before the SCOTUS concerns capricious refusal to issue CCW permits in New York.  

All of those important cases concerned self protection, and the courts upheld that basic right. 

 

 Both Federal and State laws have, for many years, prohibited keeping or use of fully automatic firearms.  The subject rapid-fire device has little to do with any of the basic rights upheld above.  It serves only to circumvent those existing legal prohibitions on full auto, to enable recreation.  I don't expect you to agree, but if you advocate for full auto, then I suggest you come right out and bring forward your own challenges against the prohibition itself, rather than working around the edges with devices intended  to circumvent long existing law, as passed by Congress.   

 

If they banned the bump stock and are currently going after binary triggers , what makes you think they wouldn’t go after this ? in the title of the post I put “the next thing to be banned by the ATF”,  so speculation on my part. These don’t circumvent any law they are legal , so was the bump stock until the atf made up a new rule because congress is lazy and doesn’t want to do their job , making laws is a job for the congress not the atf. Do you not take income tax deductions because the IRS or some irate group of people that loves to tax the public might not like it if they are legal ? I always hear about people taking income tax loopholes , the deduction is either legal or it’s not . And so is the firearm or accessory. There is no federal prohibition against full auto firearms many people own them in every state that doesn’t prohibit it . You just need to pay your $200 tax.  And I thought I was pretty clear when I said we should get rid of the 34 GCA . Anyone who can buy a AR-15 should also be able to buy. M-16 . In fact there’s really not much of a reason for the AR-15 to exist when you can leave a M16 on semi . The only reason I can come  up with is hunting regulations. 
What the government has done has made it illegal to manufacture full auto firearms for sale to the public in 86 , so whatever existed in 86 is all that the public has to choose from and this artificially inflated the price. Done intentionally by the government, that way they haven’t said you can’t own one , but you just cant afford one because the government manipulated the market . Now that’s a loophole

The government has caused this problem through their heavy handed regulation, there are very few gun laws that serve any practical purpose.

Dr John Lott , does a good job of explaining why gun control just doesn’t work, its simply a waste of valuable resources 

https://crimeresearch.org/author/johnrlott/