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Thinking on a longer range rifle


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8 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

We're referring to the rifle name not the competition from which it is derived.  The Browning BPCR is a great rifle at an excellent price typically.

I was narrowing down all the options to what he actually said he wanted to do. SASS sort of long range.

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are 8mm Lebel rolling blocks OK for SASS long range?

 

Also Tippman makes some Rolling Blocks, 45-70 etc.. they have one in .357 magnum if rechambered to .357 MAX would that be SASS LR legal?

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4 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

they have one in .357 magnum if rechambered to .357 MAX would that be SASS LR legal?

Thats a pistol caliber and wouldn't qualify for SASS long range. I believe that 38-55 is the smallest diameter "rifle" round that can be used.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

94.297% of SASS long range is loosely used here as most are 100 to 300 yards. Thats not long range.

Most are most hits in the fastest time is the norm. No sighters, most any shooting position you want.

Most don't split between BP and smokeless so BP is at a disadvantage.

 

 


North Alabama rifle caliber single shot and buffalo rifle are 200 yards at an array of descending size targets with point values from a front rest, time is not the tie breaker. FWIW only two people have cleaned that 5 target array, myself and Steelshot Scott. We do allow limited sighters. First tie breaker is hits on a tiny little bonus target but only if you cleaned the array. Other wise a tie based on points for those that did not clean the array is shoulder to shoulder shoot off.

Per the SHB rifles of US design, with external hammer, firing a period rimmed cartridge of .375" or greater diameter using BP or SASS legal BP sub is a buffalo rifle and it has its own category at our matches.

Rifle caliber repeater at 200 yards time is the tie breaker.

Pistol caliber works the same at 100 yards for our club except we allow repeaters to be single loaded and shot in the same category as single shots since pistol caliber single shots are rare. We'd rather you shoot than not be able to because you can't find a single shot pistol caliber rifle.


 

21 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

are 8mm Lebel rolling blocks OK for SASS long range?

 

Also Tippman makes some Rolling Blocks, 45-70 etc.. they have one in .357 magnum if rechambered to .357 MAX would that be SASS LR legal?


8mm Lebel could not be used in buffalo rifle.

.357max is a handun cartridge and due to date of invention would probably not be legal.
 

16 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Thats a pistol caliber and wouldn't qualify for SASS long range. I believe that 38-55 is the smallest diameter "rifle" round that can be used.


Incorrect.

-“Rifle Caliber” competition rifles must use traditional, period, rimmed cartridges. No cartridge chambered for use in any SASS approved main match revolver or rifle may be used inthe“Rifle Caliber” competition, except the .56-50. Thus, .30-30 (.30 WCF), .38-55 Marlin & Ballard, .43 Spanish, or .45-70 Government cartridges are legal, while a .375 Winchester, .444 Marlin, .32-20, or .44-40 are not legal. Shotguns using slugs are not allowed in the Buffalo Single Shot competition.-Any propellant powder may be used (with the exception smokeless powder is not allowed in the Buffalo Single Shot competition).-Regardless of category or caliber, bullets used in long range and precision rifle matches must be made of pure lead or lead alloy having a plain base, gas checked, or paper patched configuration.

Edited by Ron "Ironhead" Smith
clarity
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I know Pedersoli is a good rifle as they place in the top of BPCR matches.  I think they have won the big BPCR match in New Mexico.  I would like to have a Pedersoli Trapdoor just don't like the price.  Their barrels are as good as any out there and the barrel is the item that makes the rifle good or bad if the shooter is good.

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13 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OK its a rifle caliber but illegal. Happy now?

 

.38-55 is legal. That was a straight cut & paste from the SHB. Got a problem with that?

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1 hour ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

.38-55 is legal. That was a straight cut & paste from the SHB. Got a problem with that?

Thats exactly what I said. 38-55 it's the smallest diameter 'rifle' caliber used in LR. The .357 MAX is considered a pistol caliber and not approved for long range.

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4 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Thats exactly what I said. 38-55 it's the smallest diameter 'rifle' caliber used in LR. The .357 MAX is considered a pistol caliber and not approved for long range.

One could use a 35-30 Maynard, a 35-40 Maynard or even a 32 Ballard extra long :)

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

They're not listed. They don't appear to be a caliber large enough to be considered a "rifle" caliber for long range. Have you shot them for Long Range SASS events?

Thanks


Can you not read? Let me break it down Barney style.

Any period* rimmed cartridge.        *Period is invented prior to 1900.
Not any cartridge for which main match revolvers are chambered except the .56-50.

This allows the .32-40, .30-30, .30-40 and even the .303 British. So what if they aren't listed? There are over 100 cartridges that are applicable.

The ONLY diameter requirement is Buffalo Rifle where it must be a ,375" or greater diameter. You really should read and comprehend the SHB before spouting off. Yes, I have allowed .30-30 at State and Regional level matches I have run.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

Can you not read? Let me break it down Barney style.

Man I asked a question because I had never seen them used. Thats all. And what you "allow" may not be allowed by SASS. If a 44-40 isn't allowed, its a rifle rimmed cartridge, then why are the even smaller caliber rounds allowed?

I get that they are rifle cartridges and SASS doesn't list everything. The SHB for Long Range isn't very detailed.

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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8 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Man I asked a question because I had never seen them used. Thats all. And what you "allow" may not be allowed by SASS. If a 44-40 isn't allowed, its a rifle rimmed cartridge, then why are the even smaller caliber rounds allowed?


Again with the lack of reading comprehension even when SHB cut & paste with a Barney style breakdown is provided.

The cut and pasted portion of the SHB SPECIFICALLY lists the .30-30 as legal. It also SPECIFICALLY says cartridges for which main match rifles and revolvers are chambered are not "rifle" rounds for long range.

Now be a good little argumentative buckaroo and go read the SHB before further beclowning yourself.

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Look, I read and understand the SHB. My questions were about trying to understand the rationalization around SASS logic. The 44-40 is a rifle round. We shoot it out to 300 yards for our matches.  So why drop it?

 

I'm not arguing with you I get the whole "rimmed" cartridge thing, period correct, and Buffalo requirements. Since its a side match the local clubs can do anything they want. SASS hasn't put much effort into this because it is a side match.

Calm down and drink less coffee!

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SASS has a great many "anomalies" within the covers of the SHB.  Understanding the logic would be a trip thru time from the inception of SASS (1987) to the present.  For over half the contents of the SHB, the inclusion of a rule is because "someone"... gamed the competition because there wasn't a rule prohibited their charade of "...well it's period," even though it wouldn't be thought of by most folks as "...in the spirit of the game."  Take "...ownership of the stage after the first shot downrange"....  This came about because a former member of the Wild Bunch would game his performance with the first or second gun... and if he fumbled for shotshells, or double stroked his revolver or... whatever, he'd claim a malfunction and try for a reshoot.  IMO... not very sportsmanlike conduct.  Did this one time too many at a major shoot in front of his "peers", 3 times... to the point it was apparent what was going on.  (Wasn't long before he was asked to leave the Wild Bunch, I don't don't for certain that was the reason, but the very same year... you OWN the stage after the first shot downrange). 

 

Or in this instance... before it was ruled that it had to be a rimmed cartridge for long range... some enterprising fellows thought it would be great to use their Rolling Blocks in 7mm Mauser.   Not exactly what the typical American hunter on the frontier would be using... and a bit of an advantage over a fellow throwing 500 grain slugs downrange from a 45-70, in light of flight of time to target, time to recover from recoil, etc.  The same could be said of a .44-40, .32-20 or even my Low-wall in 45 Colt... (tho' it's great, AND legal, for plainsman by the way)!   

 

Now do you see the logic?  As fanciful as it may be?

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