Shooter's Choice of Which Gun to Start With?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

 

I agree with your definition of "make it safe", just put it somewhere that's safe and in compliance with SASS rules. But I see that as a GOOD thing, not a problem.

 

Writing stages with these types of options built in allows different shooters to shoot stages however best suites their style. This increases variety and in the long run, increases enjoyment of the game. Yep, definitely a good thing.

I always agree with Shooting Bull. That is a good thing and the safe thing to do. He is at least a foot and one half taller than I am.

[Grizzly Dave]

Picking which end to start on and choosing which gun to start with aren't necessarily the same thing. A lot of the stages at Winter Range are mirror stages so a shooter can start on either end.

 

You are correct, they are not necessarily the same, but in some cases they can be.

[Krazy Kajun]

By the way, I believe, parking it on the ground is not an approved method of making it safe...

Actually it can be. If you are shooting a pistol string and there is no prop or table in front of you and you have a malfunction on your gun you need to declare it and then safely ground the pistol. If the hammer is stuck in the cocked position it is not safe for you to move with it to another part of the stage or to holster it. If there is no table or prop nearby I've heard that it is acceptable to lay it on the ground with the muzzle pointed downrange and then move on to the next part of the stage.

 

Kajun

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Actually it can be. If you are shooting a pistol string and there is no prop or table in front of you and you have a malfunction on your gun you need to declare it and then safely ground the pistol. If the hammer is stuck in the cocked position it is not safe for you to move with it to another part of the stage or to holster it. If there is no table or prop nearby I've heard that it is acceptable to lay it on the ground with the muzzle pointed downrange and then move on to the next part of the stage.

 

Kajun

I believe PWB stated recently that it wasn't recommended. Been wrong once before. Might be again.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

Do you tell them to reholster their pistols after each pistol string? Do you tell them every stage to load their pistols with five rounds, hammer down on an empty chamber? Do you have to tell them where to start every stage?

instruction make safe, and it means exactly what it says. As a match director I have found, that make safe is pretty universally understood. Not telling them what to do generally leads to lots of questions and confusion.

Maybe you should have them read the Shooter's Handbook, especially the Stage Conventions, that answers a lot of questions......

No, I don't us the instruction "holster" as it is covered by stage convention 7. I also don't tell them how many rounds to put in their pistols because I don't like typing that much. We do not however have a stage convention that deals with where to restage a long gun when you are done shooting it. Thanks.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

No, I don't us the instruction "holster" as it is covered by stage convention 7. I also don't tell them how many rounds to put in their pistols because I don't like typing that much. We do not however have a stage convention that deals with where to restage a long gun when you are done shooting it. Thanks.

As a matter of fact, we do. Shooter's Handbook page 22 #6

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

As a matter of fact, we do. Shooter's Handbook page 22 #6

6. Long guns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointed safely down range. If

the action of a long gun closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the long gun prior to opening the action and showing the long gun to be clear. Appropriate penalties will be applied if the long gun is not clear.

 

Nowhere does this say where the long gun is to be discarded, only how. What if I want the shooter to be able to restage vertical in the corner of a prop, or to be able to hold the rifle while shooting their pistols?

I am not understanding where "make rifle safe" gets confusing. What types of things would you be tempted to do that would result in a procedural?

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Seems to me there are three books where only one is required...it'd only need to be about 35 pages too...🙊

[Boggus Deal #64218]

6. Long guns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointed safely down range. If

the action of a long gun closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the long gun prior to opening the action and showing the long gun to be clear. Appropriate penalties will be applied if the long gun is not clear.

 

Nowhere does this say where the long gun is to be discarded, only how. What if I want the shooter to be able to restage vertical in the corner of a prop, or to be able to hold the rifle while shooting their pistols?

I am not understanding where "make rifle safe" gets confusing. What types of things would you be tempted to do that would result in a procedural?

Right, it don't say where. There is now way they could say, on the table, hay bale, wagon, window sill, bar and cover all of them. How hard is 6. Long guns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointed safely down range." to understand?

 

What types of things would you be tempted to do that would result in a procedural?

 

Me? I don't have to be told how to put it down safely.

[watab kid]

i will admit to reading through this thread quickly and i may have missed something here - i trust it to be important and relevant to my attitudes toward rules and such , just what is it about the rifle that dictates it cannot be last ? im not seeing the relevance of low power as it relates to the place the rifle is fired in the sequence , im not seeing anything at all about the flow of a stage the dictates when the rifle is shot , WHAT is it that does ? i really want to know .....

[Gawd Awful]

By the way, I believe, parking it on the ground is not an approved method of making it safe...

. That is your opinion, and your Welcom to have an opinion, however your opinion is directly counter to the roc and their clarification

[Gawd Awful]

i will admit to reading through this thread quickly and i may have missed something here - i trust it to be important and relevant to my attitudes toward rules and such , just what is it about the rifle that dictates it cannot be last ? im not seeing the relevance of low power as it relates to the place the rifle is fired in the sequence , im not seeing anything at all about the flow of a stage the dictates when the rifle is shot , WHAT is it that does ? i really want to know .....

The problem is the low noise of light loads, combined with the longer barrel on a rifle placing the majority of the noise farther away from the T.O., and the timer, can result in a situation where the timer doesn't reliably pick up rifle shots. A good Timer operator, who is paying attention to the timer can usually fix this. However not all situations, or TOs are created equally.

 

 

Hypothetically, if a stage is set up rifle last, and a shooter who averages 35 second stages, shoots at their normal pace, and the time shows 21.34 seconds, now what? Force th to reshoot if they don't want to? Give them a time you know they didn't earn? What if they don't have enough 44-40 smokeless ammo for a reshoot?? How many reshoots do you force if it happens a second time? Or third time to the same shooter? A lot of stage writers make it "rifle can't be last" to avoid the headaches of the above possibilities.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The problem is the low noise of light loads, combined with the longer barrel on a rifle placing the majority of the noise farther away from the T.O., and the timer, can result in a situation where the timer doesn't reliably pick up rifle shots. A good Timer operator, who is paying attention to the timer can usually fix this. However not all situations, or TOs are created equally.

 

 

Hypothetically, if a stage is set up rifle last, and a shooter who averages 35 second stages, shoots at their normal pace, and the time shows 21.34 seconds, now what? Force th to reshoot if they don't want to? Give them a time you know they didn't earn? What if they don't have enough 44-40 smokeless ammo for a reshoot?? How many reshoots do you force if it happens a second time? Or third time to the same shooter? A lot of stage writers make it "rifle can't be last" to avoid the headaches of the above possibilities.

+1. Gawd Awful lays out the basic problems with having the rifle last. Add in shooting through a window and it makes picking up the shots even more difficult. BTW he writes a lot of the stages for ACSA and does a darn good good at it.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

+1. Gawd Awful lays out the basic problems with having the rifle last. Add in shooting through a window and it makes picking up the shots even more difficult. BTW he writes a lot of the stages for ACSA and does a darn good good at it.

Yup and longer barreled 22s through small windows become very difficult to pick up without crowding the shooter.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

As long as it's over topic the shooter's head they never seem to notice. I have long arms and legs. You could always slap the timer....err I didn't really just say that.