Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I was at Cabelas a couple of days ago and they had pallets of Herter's Low Recoil Target loads. The specs are 1 ounce of 7.5 shot at 1060 fps. The popular Winchester AA featherlite is 26 grams (about 15/16 of an ounce) of number 8 shot at 980 fps. BUT, the Herters ammo was only $58.00 per case. That's almost $30.00 per case less than the Winchesters. I bought one box just to test out thinking if they worked well it wouldn't be worth reloading given the price of all the components. I fired one Herter's out of one barrel and had a Featherlite in the other. I was using an SKB which is fairly light and there was no discernable difference in recoil between the two. Then I started doing a little practice with the Herter's shells and quickly hit a brick wall. They failed to shuck at least 60% of the time and had to be pulled from the chambers. The cases are very lightly ribbed, but that was not the problem. After looking at a few of the fired cases and an unfired one it was evident that the brass head had expanded just a bit. I got home and sectioned an AA and the Herter's. The interior differences were readily apparent. The AA is a multipiece hull but the plastic and compoents of the case are very robust. The Herter's case was very thin and the sections of the case were joined with what looked like the bottom of a shot cup facing up. It appears that when the round fires pressure pushes the shot cup down like a piston and pushes the brass out just a bit. Just thought I would post in case anyone sees any and wonders how they work. Out of a double not so good. I don't think there would be any problem with an 87 or 97. Herter's on the left, Winchester AA on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I was at Cabelas a couple of days ago and they had pallets of Herter's Low Recoil Target loads. The specs are 1 ounce of 7.5 shot at 1060 fps. The popular Winchester AA featherlite is 26 grams (about 15/16 of an ounce) of number 8 shot at 980 fps. BUT, the Herters ammo was only $58.00 per case. That's almost $30.00 per case less than the Winchesters. I bought one box just to test out thinking if they worked well it wouldn't be worth reloading given the price of all the components. I fired one Herter's out of one barrel and had a Featherlite in the other. I was using an SKB which is fairly light and there was no discernable difference in recoil between the two. Then I started doing a little practice with the Herter's shells and quickly hit a brick wall. They failed to shuck at least 60% of the time and had to be pulled from the chambers. The cases are very lightly ribbed, but that was not the problem. After looking at a few of the fired cases and an unfired one it was evident that the brass head had expanded just a bit. I got home and sectioned an AA and the Herter's. The interior differences were readily apparent. The AA is a multipiece hull but the plastic and compoents of the case are very robust. The Herter's case was very thin and the sections of the case were joined with what looked like the bottom of a shot cup facing up. It appears that when the round fires pressure pushes the shot cup down like a piston and pushes the brass out just a bit. Just thought I would post in case anyone sees any and wonders how they work. Out of a double not so good. I don't think there would be any problem with an 87 or 97. Excellent report. You did exactly what needed to be done for all to digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Larson, did you try them in a pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Quite a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 Larson, did you try them in a pump? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Lynchem Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Larson, thanks for the research and the picks. Yesterday, at one of our local matches, one of the members had some of the Herter's shotshells you mentioned. (Might I mention that he was so proud of the fact he got such a great price on them), He was using a sxs also. It seemed that when the barrels were cold the Herter's hulls would kick out most of the time but on the second two rounds of 4 plus shotgun stage, he had nothing but problems. As the barrels heated up, they would stick and he had to pull them out by hand. I think I will stick to AA's W. L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Larson.... thanks for that report... I bought three cases of them when I was at WR, and was going to order more with the free shipping. But their on line catalog only shows them available by the box... and on backorder... I've only shot a box of them. They were indeed Low Recoil, and I didn't have any stick in the chamber like you did. Sure hope that holds true for my gun... if not, I might have to start shooting a 97. GASP! Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Sinclair Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The Herters are Cheddite hulls. I shoot the 12 gauges in both my Stoeger Coach and my JW-2000 Hammer Coach and don't have any problem shucking them out. I have only polished the chambers in those two guns, not honed them or hogged them out. I have also shot them out of my 1914 vintage "The Wyco Hammerless" and they shucked right out of it, too. I haven't done anything to it. The 20 gauges won't shuck worth a durn out of Ava Crowder's Uplander and the .410's don't shuck out of Macey Magoo's Stoeger Coach either. Both of those guns shuck AA's fine so I make sure that they are supplied with those. The 20 gauges work fine in my old Springfield Model 67E pump. We recently had a shotgun only match at our club where we had 108 targets in 5 stages. One stage had 26 targets. I shot it with my Stoeger. I didn't have any problems when my gun heated up. I did swab the chambers after the second and fourth stages since we were firing a whole match's worth of shells on just about every stage. I've been reloading the Herters hulls, also. They've not given me any problems in reloading them or firing them that are hull related. They resize and shuck fine in my guns even as reloads. I did have problems with a few from the first batch where they were loaded a little light but that was my fault that they were "poofers." I put a little more TiteWad in the next batch with 7/8 oz of #8's and they worked fine. I guess everyone's mileage may vary. Try a box and see how they shoot in your gun. If anyone has some and is scared to try them, send them to me and I will dispose of them for you. ;^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 "I guess everyone's mileage may vary. Try a box and see how they shoot in your gun." Yep buy a box and try them. If they work in your gun then you will have factory loads that are as cheap as loading your own. That was my plan. Didn't work for me. I may try some more in a few months. The current lot at my local store may have problems that are not indicative of other lots. The problem on the ones I shot was the brass head actually expanding out and gripping the chamber walls. Pretty light duty hull compared to the more expensive Winchester and Remington hulls which have much thicker heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I tried the the factory loads in my 97 & mod 12 and they didn't feed well every time. Reloaded with BP my 87 didn't like them. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I used Herters exclusively at Winter Range this year. Never had a shucking problem at all. Larson mentioned the expanding brass causing friction. That seems curious to me. I don't doubt that they expand, but my Baikal extractor pushes the brass portion free of the chamber before I even begin to shuck. Maybe that's the difference. Do the SKBs not extract the shell as far? Curiously SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 One thing that I have learned... when Larson offers some input, it is worth listening to. His input is solid, and based on facts and experience. Not "Shucking" out of his Shotgun is something to be considered. That being said, they worked in mine so I have order a few more cases of them.. I just could not resist the price, and the free shipping that is now in effect. I could not find them listed by the case on their web site, only by the box, so I called them and got the case number. That number is ITEM: 21F - 218437 . At $58/case, delivered ... it is certainly enticing. It may be that my BSS has been polished so much that it is now an 11 ga! Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 I used Herters exclusively at Winter Range this year. Never had a shucking problem at all. Larson mentioned the expanding brass causing friction. That seems curious to me. I don't doubt that they expand, but my Baikal extractor pushes the brass portion free of the chamber before I even begin to shuck. Maybe that's the difference. Do the SKBs not extract the shell as far? Curiously SS Good observation. The SKB I was using is a 200E with the auto ejectors removed. The extractor does not move as far back as my SKBs that came with the extractor only. Being increasingly cheap and lazy I will pick up another box and try them in an SKB 100 or 150. Sure would be nice to be able to buy a source of shells that is that same price (or less) than loading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 My experience with Herters shells was less than stellar. I bought the light target loads when I first started CAS. Within a box the velocities were all over the map. Some shells felt like featherlights and others felt like high brass magnums. I too had issues with them hanging up in my SXS. Experienced 2 or 3 per box that would fail to shuck. Fellow shooter turned me onto the 7/8 oz Federal Top Gun shells. Shuck reliably, can be had for $65.00 a case on sale, and I can reload the hulls if I so desire. Slightly more recoil than AA featherlights but better than shooting standard target loads. No problems with KD as long as I do my part. I still have a couple of cases of the Herters I break out when someone wants to just shoot. I have never tried them in my 87 clone because the occasional hot load is brutal on my shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 My experience with Herters shells was less than stellar. I bought the light target loads when I first started CAS. Within a box the velocities were all over the map. Some shells felt like featherlights and others felt like high brass magnums. I too had issues with them hanging up in my SXS. Experienced 2 or 3 per box that would fail to shuck. Fellow shooter turned me onto the 7/8 oz Federal Top Gun shells. Shuck reliably, can be had for $65.00 a case on sale, and I can reload the hulls if I so desire. Slightly more recoil than AA featherlights but better than shooting standard target loads. No problems with KD as long as I do my part. I still have a couple of cases of the Herters I break out when someone wants to just shoot. I have never tried them in my 87 clone because the occasional hot load is brutal on my shoulder. I have to agree with Dave, I do find a certain amount of inconsistency in recoil. My wife shoots Win AA feather lites, and I felt the Herters were compatible, so i had her try some, and she got thumped hard enough to dissuade her from using them. That being said, I have to go along with the appeal of the price point. So for me I think I'll try some more. I tried the Federal Top Guns in the Red White and Blue version and had some shucking problems, seemed like more with the white ones for some reason. SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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