Warhorse Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I suspect that this issue may have been addressed before but I couldn't find any clear-cut answers. I have 500 caliber .45 bullets, smokeless lubed, that I want to use in my Remington '58. I also have BP lubed over power wads for it. Am I likely to have difficult to remove fouling with this combination or will the BP lubed wads take care of this problem? I really would prefer not to go through the process of removing the smokeless lube from the bullets and re-lubing with BP lube if I can avoid it. (NOTE: I currently have no intention of using this in any SASS competition. I just want to know if it is going to cause me any problems for casual shooting.) Obviously, I have not yet actually experimented with this combination. However, regardless of any responses, I probably will anyway. (Yeah, I'm a slow learner.) Any reliable guidance based on your actual experience? If you have not actually tried it, please refrain from expressing a strong opinion. Warhorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 If ya use some SPG on top of the slug, I don't see where it would be a problem. BP is water soluable, so the fouling isn't a major problem. A lot of smokeless shooters think it's a hammer & chisel type deal, but in fact, a quick swish and a rinse is usually fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Ramsay Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Warhorse, I shoot both smoke and smokeless 45 and 38 use the same bullets. With no problem. Chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 More than the lube I would wonder if you can get regular bullets to go in straight (or at all) in that C&B pistol. Since they were intended for smokeless I bet they are harder than you would like. Why not just buy some balls and shoot those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Warhorse, are you talking about C&B or cartridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 Warhorse, are you talking about C&B or cartridge? C&B. Sorry. Should have said that it was C&B. It was the earlier comments about not using smokeless lubed bullets with black powder that make me wary. That's the reason for the original question about using black powder-lubed over-powder wads with the smokeless-lubed bullets in the C&B to avoid a hard-fouling issue. I think that I will simply go ahead and conduct the experiment. [On a side note, I do have a cartridge conversion cylinder and could reload the .45 colt cartridge. All I need are .45 colt dies. I already have a powder dipper for the black powder. However, should I start reloading .45 Colt cartridges, I think I'll stick to smokeless. That was not the original issue here.] Warhorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 You will probably have extremely poor luck trying to shoot a standard smokeless bullet in a C&B. First, conicals for a C&B have a rebate at the base so they can be centered in the chamber. Second, smokeless bullets are alloys. Thus, you will have a heck of a time starting the bullet and with a hard bullet you stand a good chance of damaging the loading lever. Advice is free, but my advice is to skip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I just want to know if it is going to cause me any problems for casual shooting . Warhorse, there are some technical variables you have to consider: * Diameter of cylinder throat * Diameter of the bullet * Total length of the charged load: powder- 1/8" wad - bullet * Smokeless bullets are hard alloy - usually Bhn 16 - 18 ** If the total length of the charged load has the bullet nose past the mouth of the throat - No. Obvious reason is you'll not be able to turn the cylinder ** If the diameter of the bullet is greater than 0.001 you will have a hell of a time seating the hard alloy smokeless bullet because pure lead bullets should be used in percissions - No. Obvious reason is you'll need a hammer to beat the bullet into the throat If you have one or more of the No's - the answer is NO Have to remember, to shoot heavy conicals in a black powder frame percussion, you'll need a much larger powder charge. Probably more than the normal grains of FFFg with pressures exceeding the limit of a percussion handgun. This brings up the Big No ... Possibly No More Handgun and possibly No More Body Parts! I probably will anyway Good Luck! Be sure to let us know how many No's you encountered, If you have not actually tried it, please refrain from expressing a strong opinion No Warhorse, I have not tried it because I know how a percussion revolver should be loaded and No opinions either - just plain logical facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Kid Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I shoot smokeless lubed bullets with black powder in my 38s.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I shoot smokeless lube bullets over BP in my pistols with no problems (.45 CS). I use APP FFg with smokeless bullets in my rifle (.32-20, .38-40, .44 Special). My theory is that the pistols only see 30 rounds per one-day match and the shorter barrel does not generate the velocity that the longer rifle barrel does. I molded conicals and round balls for a ROA years ago. The Lee conical had very thin grooves for tumble-lube and a hollow base. The 220-grain bullet would roll a rabbit like nobody's business. I never did get a shot at a deer but sat in several stands waiting for a 20-30 yard opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisco Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Not sure what your bullets weigh, but the period correct conicals I used to buy from Dixie Gunworks for my Remington NM Army's weigh right around 190-195 grains, depending on alloy, and leave plenty of room for a full powder charge. If you've got modern bullets of the right size for your cylinders, they'll shoot just fine, but generally start and load a lot easier if you seat them backwards. Some how the targets can't tell which way the bullet is pointing... Lubed wads are great if you shoot it right away, but if they are lubed heavy enough to be useful for BP fouling they'll foul your powder in a surprisingly short time, so you would be better off with a bunch of bore butter or Crisco over the top of the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 TB, There is a huge difference between shooting a C&B with BP in a percussion cylinder, and shooting cartridges out of a conversion cylinder. Been tried a lot. Hard cast pistol bullets are just about impossible to seat straight and too much lead to remove. Not enough lube. Your also shooting APP makes its own lube. BP doesn't do that. Suggest you actually try it sometime. See if you ca get any to go in straight :-) Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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