Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 First stage at St Jude's Charity match, shooting FCGF with guns and loads I have used for some time. Same loads, 44 Russian with Goex. This time however, I ran out of Federal primers and used Wolf primers. First gun, bang, second gun, click, first gun, bang, second gun, click and so on. Five rounds as misses. At unloading table I check the rounds. None of the primers were touched, no mark. The firing pins were ok. Only the primer manufacturer was changed. I switched to my backup Rugers and finished the match with same ammo and never had a failure to fire. (misses yes but that was me) I had to file down the firing pins on the Type II Richards Conversions I was shooting as they were piercing all primers when I first got them. I had them to where they were very reliable. I checked the large pistol primers I have in stock and here is what I found: Federal .115 Remington .119 Winchester .124 CCI .1145 Wolf .1135 Would this be enough variance to not even touch the primer given I have never had a problem with Federals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 ... Five rounds as misses. At unloading table I check the rounds. None of the primers were touched, no mark. The firing pins were ok. Only the primer manufacturer was changed. ... No primer hits leads me to ask, any after market gunsmithing on the pistol(s)? Thumb resting too close to the hammer slowing its fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Matt the only thing I've done to both of these guns was to modify the arbor length to make sure they functioned properly and keep the proper gap for black powder, and judiciously file on the firing pins because they were piercing primers completely thru and binding the cylinders. As I said, I shot these with same loads but with Federal primers, in three matches before as gunfighter and did not have any problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 No hammer hits on the primers rule out the primers fault in my book. Something cause the hammers not to hit the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Very puzzling to me. I'm going to load a few rounds with various primers and see if it makes a difference. Maybe I'll find something I'm overlooking. I would have expected a small indenture on the primer or something. The primer thicknesses among different manufacturers isn't much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 My guess is that there is foreign matter on the hammer face keeping the firing pin from being hit properly... Try some factory ammo in that revolver and see if it fires. Maybe something just picked that moment to give up the ghost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 What are your measurements supposed to be of? Check your hammers to make sure the safeties haven't flipped around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 What are your measurements supposed to be of? Check your hammers to make sure the safeties haven't flipped around. Larsen, I think you missed a point, the problem guns were Richards II conversion open tops. They don't have the safeties the Rugers do. I should have mentioned what guns I was using clearer, my Rugers were back up guns. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm with Sergeant Smokepole on this one. My prediction is that weed chafe or other debris got in the way of the hammers and didn't allow them to go forward. The minor (<.002") variation in primer thickness is not enough to cause the issue you described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Larsen, I think you missed a point, the problem guns were Richards II conversion open tops. They don't have the safeties the Rugers do. I should have mentioned what guns I was using clearer, my Rugers were back up guns. Thanks! Don't think I missed the point. Richards II don't have transfer bars. HOWEVER, they do have a safety built into the hammer just below the firing pin. (Unless yours are different than all the ones I have worked on.) There is a screw in the hammer that goes in from the right hand side just about level with the hammer spur. If the safety IN the hammer fllps around the gun won't fire. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1040957.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Larsen beat me to it, but here's a pic of it fully extended on an Open Top (same safety as the RMs). The amount of extension depends on how far the screw is turned. Clockwise to extend, counter clockwise to retract. It can rotate just a little which can be enough to cause the problem. Hammer Safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Had the same thing happen to me.Then I noticed the hammer safety.Took it out and all works as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 It's not the primers. Either it's the safety as mentioned above or possibly the problem I ran into with one of my Richards Mason conversions where the conversion ring (correct term?) that loading gate is attached to, started to rotate and prevented the hammer from reaching the primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Don't think I missed the point. Richards II don't have transfer bars. HOWEVER, they do have a safety built into the hammer just below the firing pin. (Unless yours are different than all the ones I have worked on.) There is a screw in the hammer that goes in from the right hand side just about level with the hammer spur. If the safety IN the hammer fllps around the gun won't fire. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1040957.jpg I humbly apologize and thank you for solving the problem! I took a quick look at both of the revolvers and BINGO! it was obvious one of them was turned around. I overlooked it. I never knew of the safety. I thought the screw was to hold the firing pin in or something. I am so glad you all could point me in the right direction. Gracias! So why is it there?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Because the manufacturers lawyer told them to put it there. In somecases stupidity is implemented in response to well meaning but generally useless regulation at the state level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Why is it there? In order to import handguns it has to have some kind of safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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