Derby Crighton Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Does anyone know if it is possible to colour case treat the metal on exisitng firearms or out the heat required render them unsafe. For example say something have the bluing begining to wear away, rather then reblue, could one clean it and colour case treat it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major E A Sterner #12916 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Ruger uses a chemical color case to do their Vaqueros. But for a proper Color case it's done with heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Howdy It depends on what the part is and what you are trying to accomplish. True case hardening was/is a process used to impart a thin skin of hardened metal on the surface of relatively soft iron or steel. It does not strengthen the metal, it gives the part more wear resistance. Case Hardening is not appropriate for all parts. Parts that are subjected to heavy shocks as well as being subject to wear were traditionally Case Hardened. Colt always Case Hardened the frame of the SAA. Smith and Wesson always case hardened their hammers and triggers. In both instances, the hardened surface formed by infusion of extra carbon into the surface of the metal improved the wear characteristics. But the under lying metal retained its original ductility, for instance the S&W hammer could bear up to striking the frame countless times. The beautiful colors of case hardening are only a by product of the process, they have no intrinsic value and they do not add much in the way of resistance to corrosion. You don't mention what the part is that you want to Case Harden. Case Hardening is not appropriate for barrels and cylinders made of modern steel. In fact it is not appropriate for just about any modern high carbon arsenal grade steel. Modern heat treatment of these steels hardens the steel completely through the metal and contributes appreciably to their strength. The steel used by Ruger in their Vaquero frames is modern steel that is hardened all the way through. The chemical treatment that Ruger used to put on them created colors that looked like the colors of true Case Hardening, but they were not. You don't mention what parts you are talking about. Specifically, what are you considering Case Hardening? P.S. Where are you from? You used the British spelling of the word 'color'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Crighton Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Responces in no particular order. The Cylinder of an 1851 navy clone. Not looking at hardening it, just after the colourful side affect. More of a whim than anything else. So a chemical treatment eh, good to know. From New Zealand, SASS internation membership pending so no number YET :-) With all the sheep here we have a surplus of u's to use in our spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Another point: Even if a part is made of a low alloy steel that is amenible to case hardening, the color may not last long. Exposure to sunlight and time will fade the colors to a mottled gray, which is why we see so many old rifles and pistols that appear to have the color worn off. But what the others have said about high alloy steels being heat treated so they are virtually the same hardness through and through is right on the mark! Occasionally, a medium-carbon content (.30 to .40%) alloy steel may be surface hardened for wear purposes. But such action does NOT impart colors to it. Your obdt servant, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Will Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Here I go racking the ole brain again.... Iffin' I remember correctly, Tinture of Iodine is applied to the surface (steel - iron) and then heat is applied using a fine tipped torch. As the Iodine heats, the metal is colored as if CASED. It doesn't wear well, but old smiths used to apply a clear laquer over the treatment. I remember seeing an old smith do some remarkable resto work when I was a kid (I'm 70 now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Realize that the color casing which Ruger used to do on Vaqueros was so prone to rust that Ruger has now given up on it, and they don't color case any production (as far as I know). And if they don't know how to do it so it lasts, there may not be many around who do. Besides, no gun was ever case hardened on the cylinder - it will look pretty weird to anyone who knows revolvers. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Besides, no gun was ever case hardened on the cylinder - it will look pretty weird to anyone who knows revolvers. Any more "weird" than a pair of John Deere green & yellow revolvers? It could be an interesting look. Ahhh the choices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 John Deere green & yellow revolvers would be just a tad more/less weird than a pink 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheye #79915 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 From New Zealand, SASS internation membership pending so no number YET :-) With all the sheep here we have a surplus of u's to use in our spelling ".....surplus of u's......"!!! Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 There are some professional restorers who will do real color case hardening, the old charcoal/bone meal/furnace way. But they charge a pretty penney! If an amateur attempts it, he may be successful - or he may warp the steel. Heat can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Kidd Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 the very best person I have ever seen at modern color casehardening is Doug Turnbull. his work is simply amazing. turnbullrestoration.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Howdy Again Let's be perfectly clear about this. The cylinder of a revolver is the pressure vessel. It needs to be as strong as possible because it contains the pressure of the exploding cartridge. Case Hardening is inappropriate for a cylinder, particularly one made of modern steel. The heat applied in the furnace when producing real Case Hardening could alter the strength of the cylinder, particularly if it has already been heat treated to increase its strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I have had good results using Birchwood-Casey's cold blue thinned with rem-oil (50/50). This over very clean steel and waiting about ten minutes before wiping gives a mottle blue/gray/brown appearance that seems to be resistant to rust. It is not a great process but works in a pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I have also seen bare metal heated and transmission fluid applied - the fluid created a mottled "case coloring" effect. If I remember correctly, the metal did not have to be that hot, certainly not hot enough to change the temper or treatment of the metal. Don't know hot exactly and no idea why the guy used tranny fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Crighton Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thank you for all the advise here chaps Howdy Again Let's be perfectly clear about this. The cylinder of a revolver is the pressure vessel. It needs to be as strong as possible because it contains the pressure of the exploding cartridge. Case Hardening is inappropriate for a cylinder, particularly one made of modern steel. The heat applied in the furnace when producing real Case Hardening could alter the strength of the cylinder, particularly if it has already been heat treated to increase its strength. Noted, I thought it might be a bad idea, so figured best to ask first. I may experiment of some scape metal with some of the chemicla treatments above see if I get the effect I am after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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