Ruger Vaquero vs Uberti Cattleman

[Jack Houston # 35508]

RUGER!!!

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Try as many different makes and styles as you can before you buy anything.Yes Ruger makes an excellent product;but if it doesn't feel right in YOUR hands it's going to be harder getting used to when you start shooting it on a regular basis.I've had Rugers....great guns...but they didn't "feel right" so I shoot open top conversions now and once in a while 75 Remingtons built by Uberti.All of these feel better to me when I use them than the Rugers did.And;BTW...Colt's aren't American made anymore and haven't been since the 70's.Colt sold all of their machinery to Uberti to have them do all the machine work.Doing that they have an agreement that Uberti can make "Colt clones" but only the ones coming back here to Colt can have the Colt logo.

 

I'm sure others more knowledgeable will be along later in the day to pile on but let me be the first to say: baloney.

 

Uberti makes Ubertis and Beretta Stampedes, they do not make Colts.

 

Colts are made in the USA by Colt. They do not even contain any Italian parts. USFA back when they were USPFA used some Italian parts but no longer.

 

Where did you get your bogus info??

[Salt Flat Swindler]

I ended up with Ubertis when I was shopping for six guns. I held the Ruger first, didn't fit my hand to my liking and the transfer bar was too much of an eye sore for my taste, so I put the Ruger down and never looked back. After 6 years of use I think the only thing I have replaced on the cattlemen are the bolt springs and a firing pin.

 

Also I don't know where you are getting your facts from but 4th gen Colts are assembled on Mars with parts made by the secret S&W factory in the lost city of Atlantis. Clearly you all need to hang out more at your local gun shops and get the facts straight.

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

Try as many different makes and styles as you can before you buy anything.Yes Ruger makes an excellent product;but if it doesn't feel right in YOUR hands it's going to be harder getting used to when you start shooting it on a regular basis.I've had Rugers....great guns...but they didn't "feel right" so I shoot open top conversions now and once in a while 75 Remingtons built by Uberti.All of these feel better to me when I use them than the Rugers did.And;BTW...Colt's aren't American made anymore and haven't been since the 70's.Colt sold all of their machinery to Uberti to have them do all the machine work.Doing that they have an agreement that Uberti can make "Colt clones" but only the ones coming back here to Colt can have the Colt logo.

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

Try as many different makes and styles as you can before you buy anything.Yes Ruger makes an excellent product;but if it doesn't feel right in YOUR hands it's going to be harder getting used to when you start shooting it on a regular basis.I've had Rugers....great guns...but they didn't "feel right" so I shoot open top conversions now and once in a while 75 Remingtons built by Uberti.All of these feel better to me when I use them than the Rugers did.And;BTW...Colt's aren't American made anymore and haven't been since the 70's.Colt sold all of their machinery to Uberti to have them do all the machine work.Doing that they have an agreement that Uberti can make "Colt clones" but only the ones coming back here to Colt can have the Colt logo.

 

 

??????????? WHAT??? COLTS SAA was never made in Italy

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

BTW...Colt's aren't American made anymore and haven't been since the 70's.Colt sold all of their machinery to Uberti to have them do all the machine work.Doing that they have an agreement that Uberti can make "Colt clones" but only the ones coming back here to Colt can have the Colt logo.

 

Oh my goodness. This misconception pops up every once in a while. It is often promoted by 'gun store experts'.

 

I am afraid you are confusing the Second Generation Black Powder series of percussion revolvers (Cap & Ball) with the Single Action Army. The SAA after all is what this discussion is about when we talk about Colts.

 

No, Colt did not ship any tooling to Italy, most of the tooling in question was destroyed when the Colt factory burned to the ground in 1864. What did happen was after seeing the success that Uberti was having with C&B revolvers, Colt contracted with them to supply parts for the Second Generation Black Powder series.

 

You can read the full story here:

 

2nd Gen Black

Powder

 

The SAA has always been made in Hartford Connecticut. Was and still is. A number of years ago Colt moved out from under the Blue Dome on the Connecticut River and moved to a modern facility across town. For a while USFA occupied the old factory, but they have since moved out to a modern facility too.

 

But I assure you, the CNC equipment is still humming away, producing parts for the SAA in Hartford, and they are still being assembled in Hartford.

 

P.S. The Lou Imperato mentioned in the story is the father of Anthony Imperato, the president of Henry Repeating Arms.

[Rancid Loosehammer]

So ... according to Charlie Whiskers ... if what he says is correct, those of us who ante up to buy a Colt are paying roughly a grand just to have "Colt" stamped on it ... no other difference.

 

Methinks many out there will strongly differ with that information. As for me, I'm dumb and ignorant on that particular subject, so will bow out and let the flack fly. But even as ignorant as I am, I find it VERY hard to believe that Colts are made in Italy! Methinks Driftwood has it right! But it reminds me of trying to make sense out of all the B.S., spin, out-and-out lies, deception, childishness, etc. etc. etc. coming out of Washington D.C. these days. Maybe we need to assemble all of SASS into one big posse and ride to D.C., round them all up into the corral, spray them all down with delousing solution, change most of their brands, castrate a few, dehorn a few, and vaccinate them all against bullshit. Oh ... and if'n we find any sheep mixed in the herd, we just shoot 'em.

[Charlie Whiskers]

I stand corrected.When the gunsmith that told me about this I guess I misunderstood him to mean ALL Colt models were machined and built in Italy by Uberti.I appologize for my mistake to all Colt lovers and for misleading new shooters by my mistake.

[Rancid Loosehammer]

Reverend Rancid says that the Lord SASS forgives you, my son.

Just do your pennance of shooting 52 stages with one revolver and reloading on the clock, and your sins shall be forgiven.

[Wopahoe Kid]

Wow, all the different pistols, makes my head spin....

I know the Colt is the surpreme pistol for us, but then the water gets real muddy for me..

Ruger, Uberti, Cimmiron, Bretta, USFA, and on and on....what's a new shooter to think?

 

Ok, buy the Colt and never look back? One of the others?

 

I'm so confused

[Rancid Loosehammer]

It’s not all that confusing:

There are basically only five choices:

COLT

USFA

RUGER

UBERTI

PIETTA

 

Never mind Cimarron (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind EMF (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind Beretta (their guns are made by Pietta) (Actually Beretta owns Pietta).

 

Colts and USFAs are roughly two to three times the price of the others. But the difference is price is 99% cosmetics and brand name hype. Their case hardening is more authentic and deeper and richer in color, but other than that the difference is mostly brand name hype. Included in that “hype” are some nitty-gritty details that make them “authentic in every detail to a real Colt” like the shape of the hammer, base pin, beveling on the cylinders, barrel/frame markings and so forth but these things have little to do with quality and more to do with pedigree and collectibility and such.

 

For most of us, that price difference eliminates Colt and USFA from consideration.

And that leaves

RUGER

UBERTI

PIETTA

 

Rugers are a modern design, which sets them apart from all the others including Colt and USFA. They use all coil springs which seldom if ever break. All of the others use flat leaf springs which do occasionally break although not all that often, and the springs are inexpensive and very easy to replace if and when they do break. The older original Ruger Vaqueros gained a reputation for being rugged because of the coil springs and also because they had larger, stronger frames and cylinders to handle magnum cartridges such as the 44 magnum. The Ruger New Vaquero gave up all of that added strength because they have smaller frames and cylinders in order to more closely resemble a Colt, and can no longer handle a 44 magnum cartridge. The original Vaqueros don’t look like a Colt, sound like a Colt, load like a Colt or feel like a Colt – but they are VERY rugged. The New Vaqueros have been modified to load more like a Colt and they look more like a Colt and feel more like a Colt, but their only real advantage over a Colt or USFA or UBERTI or PIETTA is the marginal advantage of the coil springs.

 

The UBERTI and PIETTA revolvers are virtually identical when it comes to quality, and they are very close copies to actual Colts. Today they are very high-quality guns with excellent fit and finish. You can also get configurations of these guns that you cannot get from Colt or USFA or Ruger; such as the Pietta Alchemista (larger grip frame), the Uberti Cattleman Brass (the ONLY gun available with a case/POLISHED blue and a brass backstrap and trigger guard).

[Noz]

Ruger.

 

I like the idea of having a gun that is capable of handling way more powder than I like to load for a cowboy load.

[Rancid Loosehammer]

Well, Noz -

A Ruger New Vaqero is no stronger in that regard than any Colt or Italian clone!

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

It’s not all that confusing:

There are basically only five choices:

COLT

USFA

RUGER

UBERTI

PIETTA

 

Never mind Cimarron (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind EMF (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind Beretta (their guns are made by Pietta) (Actually Beretta owns Pietta).

 

Colts and USFAs are roughly two to three times the price of the others. But the difference is price is 99% cosmetics and brand name hype. Their case hardening is more authentic and deeper and richer in color, but other than that the difference is mostly brand name hype. Included in that “hype” are some nitty-gritty details that make them “authentic in every detail to a real Colt” … like the shape of the hammer, base pin, beveling on the cylinders, barrel/frame markings and so forth … but that has little to do with quality.

 

For most of us, that price difference eliminates Colt and USFA from consideration.

And that leaves

RUGER

UBERTI

PIETTA

 

Rugers are a modern design, which sets them apart from all the others including Colt and USFA. They use all coil springs which seldom if ever break. All of the others use flat leaf springs which do occasionally break although not all that often, and the springs are inexpensive and very easy to replace if and when they do break. The older original Ruger Vaqueros gained a reputation for being rugged because of the coil springs and also because they had larger, stronger frames and cylinders to handle magnum cartridges such as the 44 magnum. The Ruger New Vaquero gave up all of that added strength because they have smaller frames and cylinders in order to more closely resemble a Colt, and can no longer handle a 44 magnum cartridge. The original Vaqueros don’t look like a Colt, sound like a Colt, load like a Colt or feel like a Colt – but they are VERY rugged. The New Vaqueros have been modified to load more like a Colt and they look more like a Colt and feel more like a Colt, but their only real advantage over a Colt or USFA or UBERTI or PIETTA is the marginal advantage of the coil springs.

 

The UBERTI and PIETTA revolvers are virtually identical when it comes to quality. Today they are very high-quality guns with excellent fit and finish.

 

Unless things have changed, Cimarron guns are made by Uberti, not Pietta. At least the two Cimarron pistols I have owned were plainly marked that they had been made by Uberti.

 

In my experience, Pietta revolvers are one notch below Uberti in quality. I know a lot of folks rave about the latest GWII revolvers from Pietta, but the burrs left on the outer surface of the frames of my Pietta 1860 Armies are a disgrace. The burrs should have been cleaned off before the frames were case hardened. As it is, if I were to stone off the burrs, I would go through the colors and the repair would stick out like a sore thumb. Should have ponied up the extra $$$ for Uberti 1860s, not cheaped out and gotten the Piettas.

 

And I am sorry, but Colts are at least two notches above any of the Italian clones in quality. Take apart a new in the box Uberti sometime. Then take apart a Colt. See which one has more burrs left inside on the frame because the CNC machines were running too fast, leaving all kinds of rough machining marks and burrs inside the frame. You will not find that kind of poor finish in a Colt. I have found it in every single Italian clone I have opened up. How about the cast hammer on my Cimarron Cattleman that had a big void in the hammer right at the cam? How did a void get there? Because the part is a casting. Colt parts are still machined from solid stock, no castings inside a Colt. Compare how soft the metal is sometime with an Uberti and a Colt.

 

That's what you are paying for with a Colt, it ain't all about the name.

 

Sorry, I don't have any USFA guns to compare to.

[Rancid Loosehammer]

Well, I must concede that Driftwood is right.

I tried to break it down from my perceptions from what reading I have done on the subject. Driftwood, on the other hand, actually owns specimens of the guns in question. So of course he is correct. And I am very glad to see him point out the very substantial better quality of the Colt in detail – the first such detailed explanation I have seen, and I have read a lot.

 

But I have no problem admitting I’m wrong when I’m wrong, and I was wrong on several points here. The good thing about all this is that we’re learning from these discussions.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

FYI, Cimarron still imports Ubertis but has added Pietta cartridge guns to their line.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Colts are nice...but one can 'slick' up an Uberti that works and feels just as good for about $200 or under...and well under the price of a new Colt. The Colt brand demands a premium. Afterall...it's had almost 140 years making the SAA. Tradition means a lot.

 

 

GG

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

The Colt brand demands a premium. Afterall...it's had almost 140 years making the SAA. Tradition means a lot.

 

Howdy Again

 

It's more than that. It actually costs more to make a Colt than it does to make an Uberti.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Sorry DJ...it doesn't cost that much more.

 

GG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Maybe the profit margin is more lol!

 

GG

[Charlie Whiskers]

Last I heard,Benelli owns...Beretta....Stoeger....and Uberti.But not Pietta.I have 2 Pietta's and both are very smooth and have performed flawlessly.I shoot mostly Uberti's,but have nothing bad to say about Pietta's.Both of my Pietta's are at least 6 years old.Cimarron now handles both Uberti and Pietta.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

"Never mind Cimarron (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind EMF (their guns are made by Pietta)

Never mind Beretta (their guns are made by Pietta) (Actually Beretta owns Pietta)." -- quote from Rancid Loosehammer's long and incorrect post

 

You got one out of 3 there. The Cimarron Model P is a Uberti. Cimarron only very recently began importing any Piettas. The Beretta 6guns are Ubertis with the addition of a transfer bar. Beretta owns Uberti. Beretta has never owned or been affiliated with Pietta.

 

Well, Noz -

A Ruger New Vaqero is no stronger in that regard than any Colt or Italian clone!

 

Even tho down-sized from the original Vaquero, the New Vaquero is still substantially stronger than any Colt or clone.

 

Make it one out of four. Three strikes yer out. You should research better before disseminating bogus info on the Wire please.

 

Thank you.

[Charlie Whiskers]

Lone Dog....you have me confused now..........Never mind Beretta (their guns are made by Pietta) (Actually Beretta owns Pietta)." Then in the next paragraph you said.....

Beretta has never owned or been affiliated with Pietta.

 

 

Rugers make an EXCELLENT gun.....I've had Rugers,but they never felt right in my hands.And Rugers are stronger than the other makes,but for what we do they all work great.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Sorry, Charlie did you not see the quotation marks?? I was quoting Rancid Loosehammer's incorrect post. The post was so long that I did not want to "copy" it in toto so I cut and pasted the worst part. I have edited my post to indicate that the beginning part inside the quotation marks are his words, not mine.

[Wopahoe Kid]

Exactly...now if you boys are confused, imagine how us new guys feel....

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Exactly...now if you boys are confused, imagine how us new guys feel....

 

 

Howdy Kid.

 

Most of the pistol names listed are quality guns. Its possible to even get 'the best' and still have a flaw sometimes.

 

But I've learned from the Wire that most of the info Driftwood lays out can be taken to the bank.

 

My only experience is with Rugers. I use the original Vaqueros and love em.....in both .357 and .45 Colt calibers.

 

There is one new set of pistols on the market that has caught my fancy and ifn I were gona buy meowndangself a new set, I would probably get the 'Runnin Irons' from Taylors.

 

I checked out a set of these at GOA last weekend and their 3 1/2 Stainless model was perfect for my taste.

 

Anyhow, get yeself to a match and check out everyones irons. Ask questions. This will either help you decide which ones to buy or atleast help you narrow your choices.

 

You'll probably be satisfied with your decision when its all said and done.

 

Here's wishing you well.

 

..........Widder

[Dirtwater Doc 17941]

As you have seen, there are different opinions on these types of pistols. The Ubertis are copies of Colts; some changes have been made, but still they are Colt clones. Rugers are the "next" generation single action and are superior in many (but not all) ways to the Colt style. A Colt is a Colt and there is no substitute. Rugers are modern, stronger and built to last.

 

Buy a pair of Rugers and don't worry. If you want really want Ubertis, OK but wait to buy Colts instead.

 

Just my opinion and I could be....

 

DD

[Charlie Whiskers]

Sorry, Charlie did you not see the quotation marks?? I was quoting Rancid Loosehammer's incorrect post. The post was so long that I did not want to "copy" it in toto so I cut and pasted the worst part. I have edited my post to indicate that the beginning part inside the quotation marks are his words, not mine.

 

 

 

Ooooops....sorry.Guess I missed the quotation marks.

[Rancid Loosehammer]

I was talking with Rick Stover last week, the gunsmith that was written up in the latest edition of the Chronicle.

I was talking with him about having him do some work on my Uberti Cattleman.

Along the way, he volunteered, and this is a quote "I just got in two engraved Colts with consecutive serial numbers that are the worst pieces of crap I've seen in a long long time".

 

The general thing he was telling me is this:

Ruger guns are basically kit guns ... a good starting place from which to build a really good gun.

Uberti makes a pretty consistently good gun, even though their steel may be a bit softer than Colt and Ruger.

Pietta's guns are of consistently lesser quality than Ubertis.

Colts are generally good guns, but not always.

 

These are his opinions, not mine.

But my personal experience with the two Rugers that I do have says his analysis is right on. And by the way, Bob Munden basically says the same thing about Rugers: He said to me "Ruger just throws their guns together".

[Knarley Bob]

I've HAD Uberti Cattlemans.... and I HAVE Ruger Vaqueros.

Nuff said........

 

Knarley

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Ruger Vaqueros work fine right out of the box. Any factory gun can be improved upon if the user desires. 'Kit guns'? ...LOL!

 

GG

[Rancid Loosehammer]

Well, Rugers might run "OK" out of the box.

And a run of the mill Chevy Camaro will drive "OK".

But it will get its butt kicked on a NASCAR circuit.

Compared to a NASCAR Chevy, a stock Chevy IS just "thrown together".

Rick Stover and Bob Munden are focused on the equivalent of "NASCAR" performance and what it takes to get a gun to that level.

 

But my personal top priority is that my guns shoot amall groups AT THE POINT OF AIM. If they won't do that, the action, the durability, and everything else about the gun is totally irrelevant, to me the gun is a piece of crap and virtually useless for anything other than hitting two-foot square steel targets at 30 feet. I have been beating my brains out trying to get my two Ruger original Vaqueros to do that, and so far, no luck. I have just ordered a Uberti Cattleman. If the Uberti outshoots the Rugers, the Rugers are going elsewhere. Period.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Well, Rugers might run "OK" out of the box.

And a run of the mill Chevy Camaro will drive "OK".

But it will get its butt kicked on a NASCAR circuit. as would a Colt gun or its clones

Compared to a NASCAR Chevy, a stock Chevy IS just "thrown together".

Rick Stover and Bob Munden are focused on the equivalent of "NASCAR" performance and what it takes to get a gun to that level. yeah, and like with a NASCAR race car...and when they fail they FAIL!..They are meant to run one way - WOT!

But my personal top priority is that my guns shoot amall groups AT THE POINT OF AIM. If they won't do that, the action, the durability, and everything else about the gun is totally irrelevant, to me the gun is a piece of crap and virtually useless for anything other than hitting two-foot square steel targets at 30 feet. I have been beating my brains out trying to get my two Ruger original Vaqueros to do that, and so far, no luck. I have just ordered a Uberti Cattleman. If the Uberti outshoots the Rugers, the Rugers are going elsewhere. Period. Good or you, usually its the shooter more than the gun ...and what consitutes 'out shoot'?...you mean accuracy? that more than likely can be fixed (you already mention about taking the gun to a race car gunsmith - they can fix the accuracy issue...unless the problem is you )....you mean speed? Good luck with that - that's where it is the performance and skill of the shooter

 

Ever hear of Deuce Stevens? He set the CAS world record with box-stock Vaqueros...

 

 

 

Happy trails

 

 

GG ~

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

I am likely the only person on the planet who got rid of my Ruger Vaquero (RVs) revolver. Ya see, I started with 44-40 and RVs. While I can say the RVs were really built like tanks, the dimensions of the bore and cylinders were just plain wrong. I got drag lines and it had to be re-timed. (other floks note that the transfer bar can crack or the base pin starts to pop out -- common problems for an RV) Anyway, sorry to say, the RV in 44-40 I had was badly made. The accuracy was horrendous. I was able to fix the gun at a cost, so it shot fairly well, but not great. I will add, this problem was limited and unique to the 44-40 caliber.

 

When it cam time to buy another revolver, I chose not to follow the same path because I was hooked on 44-40.

 

I sold my RV and purchased two Uberti Cattlemen. Mostly because I could not afford Colts. These Uberti revolvers were very accurate revolvers out of the box. The dimensions of bore and cylinder were perfect. One drawback ... soft internal parts. Over time, I replaced the springs and firing pins and hammer cams. Yeah I had a machinist grind off the hammer cams, drill and insert Colt hammer cams. He polished most other parts. Interestingly, I have had no failure is a really long time.

 

So... whats the diff? IMO not much.

 

If the RV you get shoots well and fits your hand ... go with it. If the Uberti fits your hand and shoots well ... go with it.

 

I finally bought a pair of Colts. All I can say is ... holy cow what an upgrade! Fit, finish, function, durability, all there. I had the opportunity to handle a USFA revolver sometime back... I can see why USFA can give Colt a run for the money.

 

Like the Pard above said, cheap is really expensive. Paying for high quality up front is cheap. That goes for leather too.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Colts...wish I had some...they were the design and company that was used in the real old west I reckon....

 

But...oh never mind

 

GG