What’s a hit?

[John Ringo]

I asked these questions on a popular Facebook page and got a lot of opinions but no rules citations. It was suggested I post the questions here.  Two situations offered up for consideration: 1. Shooter shoots pistol at low to the ground pistol targets and manages to bounce (ricochet) the bullet off the ground and hit the appropriate pistol target. The ground hit is beyond penalty distances. 2. Same shooter then shoots rifle and manages to bounce (ricochet ) the bullet off the top of the pistol target and then hit the appropriate rifle target? WTC and based on what? ROIII? An ROC clarification? Just because you say so?

Edited August 19 by John Ringo
Misspelling

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

In general, if you are a spotter...

If you know it's a hit, it's a hit.
If you think it's a hit, it's a hit.
If you think it's miss, it's a hit

If you know it's a miss, it's a miss.

In specific to your questions, if you don't think the above applies, I'd say they are both misses as they both hit something else before the intended target.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

The clincher from the Facebook post was that when the TO/Spotters called them as misses, they were questioned about "where in the rules does it say that those are misses, the bullets still hit the correct target". I probably paraphrased that a little.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Miss flow chart.

Did the shooter HIT appropriate targets with legally acquired ammo? 

 

Edited August 19 by Creeker, SASS #43022

[July Smith]

What did the spotters call?  If I was spotting I'd probably call it a lucky clean in both cases. 

 

It could be argued that the first pistol shot was likely gravel hitting the target and not a ricochet, in the case of the rifle shot it could also be argued that the bullet struck the wrong target first resulting in a "P" but this is a discussion for page 3 or 4.

Edited August 19 by July Smith

[wyliefoxEsquire]

The first object hit by bullet is the only thing that counts.

I will try to find PWB reference.

[Tennessee williams]

It has been clarified the first impact is the one that counts. 

[John Ringo]

45 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

The first object hit by bullet is the only thing that counts.

I will try to find PWB reference.

I am sure you are correct but I cannot find a reference or clarification. I was asked these questions and answered that both situations are misses. Then I was asked, “Where can I find that in the rules?” This latter question afforded me a wonderful opportunity to scour through the SHB, and ROI and ROII manuals. Unfortunately the question remained unanswered. But I KNOW somewhere this issue was clarified.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

58 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

It has been clarified the first impact is the one that counts. 

 

This ^   (and I hate to agree with TW)

 

If I ain't mistaken, a ricochet hitting the target, is a MISS.

And if the ricochet hits the correct TYPE target (like missing the correct pistol target and hitting another pistol target), it is still a MISS.

 

I might add, if the spotters actually see the ricochet,  there is no guessing 'the intent'.   the INITIAL hit was a miss.

 

EDIT:  something to ponder:  what if the bullet hit 5 or 10 feet in front of the shooter and then hits the target?

Do you overlook the SDQ or MDQ initial hit and forget about any penalty?   NOPE!

 

..........Widder

 

Edited August 19 by Widder, SASS #59054

[July Smith]

1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

It has been clarified the first impact is the one that counts. 

I don't disagree with this clarification, but when or where was this ruling made?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I posted an updated ROC ruling from this 2015 :thread in response to the FB "WtC?":
MTC- a new bone to chew on - Page 3 - SASS Wire - SASS Wire Forum (sassnet.com)

 

(go to page three and look for BLUE text.