Stoeger SxS not cocking both hammers

[Dred Bob]

I purchased a Stoeger Coach gun last year when I started Cowboy shooting.  It's a single trigger and I'm aware that they can be problematic.  It's worked flawlessly until about a month ago then I had it's first failure to fire on a stage at the Ohio State match.   I kind of shrugged it off, since it's the first time in a few 100 rounds.  Last month it got me again, starting to feel like an issue.  This month it got me twice.   Both times it failed on the second barrel.   I assumed it was an issue with the trigger which from reading is a not UNcommon issue with the single trigger.   I tore down the shotgun, not so much because I know what I'm doing but because I can't really hurt it at this point so might as well look under the hood and see how the magic happens, or doesn't as the case may be.  

 

I got the shotgun tore down and it was pretty crusty so I hosed it down with CLP, let it sit and cleaned up the works so I could get a good view of it.  I did some test fires to see how the action worked and discovered that there isn't a problem with the triggers but the hammer on the second barrel isn't getting cocked.  I checked in the front stock and it looks pretty worn.  Picture to follow.   

 

It looks like grooves have worn where the cocking cams run against the stock and it's finally worn enough that one of the hammers can't quite lock, can this be fixed or replaced?

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Damn, I'll have to peek at mine. When I do clean it, I can't say I've ever noticed a groove there. My double trigger gun has at least a few thousand shells through it.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Maybe reach out to@Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L He is a gunsmith that specializes in cowboy action firearms.

 

[Dred Bob]

I borrowed a fore-end off of a double trigger and it cocks both hammers fine so it's definitely the grooves worn into the metal.

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

You could custom make a longer cocking rod from drill stock ( available at MSC or McMaster Carr) buy the right size, cut to length and harden the end.  but it looks like you either have a VERY soft piece of metal in your forearm or you had a really nasty end on your cocking rod to begin with. You really shouldn’t be seeing a grove cut like that even if it was dirty

[Dred Bob]

2 minutes ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

You could custom make a longer cocking rod from drill stock ( available at MSC or McMaster Carr) buy the right size, cut to length and harden the end.  but it looks like you either have a VERY soft piece of metal in your forearm or you had a really nasty end on your cocking rod to begin with. You really shouldn’t be seeing a grove cut like that even if it was dirty

 

way beyond my skill and equipment level.  The cocking levers didn't look unusual or worn, nothing obvious anyway.   It appears they make a replacement for that foreend insert but I only found one place that shows it (Midwest GW) and it's out of stock.  This gun was smooth and easy to run but I bought it used at a match and I don't have a clue how many miles are on it.  Aside from this it has very little wear showing anywhere else.  

 

I admit I did try a small piece of duck/duct tape in there because I'm a guy and that's what we do.  (It didn't work).  I just need a couple of thousandths....  that's about my skill level.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

3 minutes ago, Dred Bob said:

 

way beyond my skill and equipment level.  The cocking levers didn't look unusual or worn, nothing obvious anyway.   It appears they make a replacement for that foreend insert but I only found one place that shows it (Midwest GW) and it's out of stock.  This gun was smooth and easy to run but I bought it used at a match and I don't have a clue how many miles are on it.  Aside from this it has very little wear showing anywhere else.  

 

I admit I did try a small piece of duck/duct tape in there because I'm a guy and that's what we do.  (It didn't work).  I just need a couple of thousandths....  that's about my skill level.

Because I try things also I’d probably get some shim stock and try filling in the grooves just to see if it will cock?

 

Randy

[Dred Bob]

2 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Because I try things also I’d probably get some shim stock and try filling in the grooves just to see if it will cock?

 

Randy

 

if by shim stock you mean duck tape..... .    I tried that.   I borrowed another forend that isn't worn and it cocked fine over and over.

[Eyesa Horg]

Me being me  I might try something like steel JB weld. Polish smooth, polish the cocking levers and add grease! 

[Jim Brown]

Get some stainless shim stock - I would try about .002 first. (Duct Tape will not work for checking)

IF you want to try first - fit shim stock in the for-end and cycle to see if it cocks. If it is enough good - if not try 2 pieces.

If happy  and you needed 2 or more then get shim stock of the required thickness

 

Take JB weld and put on  for-end- then fit shim stock in channel on top of JB.

When set try.

 

[Dred Bob]

I haven't used JB Weld but assumed it wouldn't be able to adhere to a surface like that.   would a gunsmith be able to braze or weld material into the channels and grind it smooth that might be a little more durable?   It's obvious those hammer levers apply tremendous pressure to a very small area.   

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

I have forearm metal that is in good shape. All that you should need is the front part of the metal where it connects to the action. I can send you a replacement for $35 shipped.

I'll PM you my contact info in case you want this part.

Johnny Meadows 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

13 minutes ago, Dred Bob said:

I haven't used JB Weld but assumed it wouldn't be able to adhere to a surface like that.   would a gunsmith be able to braze or weld material into the channels and grind it smooth that might be a little more durable?   It's obvious those hammer levers apply tremendous pressure to a very small area.   

Brazing by itself wouldn’t work. Brazing rod is a brass based metal. It would be too soft. It would wear faster than the steel. 
Take Johnny up on his part.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

14 hours ago, Dred Bob said:

 

if by shim stock you mean duck tape..... .    I tried that.   I borrowed another forend that isn't worn and it cocked fine over and over.

Actually I was talking about steel shim stock. I repaired the axle eye on a ‘64 Ford pickup with shims from a PBR can, it held about 6 months and I had to drink enough PBR to get more shim stock, kept doing that until I sold the truck.

 

Randy

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

8 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Actually I was talking about steel shim stock. I repaired the axle eye on a ‘64 Ford pickup with shims from a PBR can, it held about 6 months and I had to drink enough PBR to get more shim stock, kept doing that until I sold the truck.

 

Randy

I didn’t read all of the replies before I replied. After reading them your best bet would be to contact Johnny Meadows as that sounds like a good deal. Once you install the new part I’d be sure to add STOS grease to try to stop the wear.

 

https://pvgunworks.com/product/stos-lube/
 

 

Randy

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Actually I was talking about steel shim stock. I repaired the axle eye on a ‘64 Ford pickup with shims from a PBR can, it held about 6 months and I had to drink enough PBR to get more shim stock, kept doing that until I sold the truck.

 

Randy

 yeah that sounds about right. One PBR every six months is about my limit as well!

Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Lassy LaRock]

The grooves in the forearm are not caused by use. They were milled to prevent the barrel assembly from jumping back when the springs are under tension. Is a simple standard tuning on a Boito. Unfortunately, they are a bit too deep. Two welding points in the grooves will solve the problem.

[Lassy LaRock]

Second possibility: If you look at the first picture of the forearm: the two upper surfaces of the middle bars limit the opening angle. If you grind these down a bit, the opening angle becomes larger and the clamping pieces have more space to snap back into place. 

[Dred Bob]

39 minutes ago, Lassy LaRock said:

The grooves in the forearm are not caused by use. They were milled to prevent the barrel assembly from jumping back when the springs are under tension. Is a simple standard tuning on a Boito. Unfortunately, they are a bit too deep. Two welding points in the grooves will solve the problem.

 

interesting.  I wonder which wore down, the forearm or the hammer levers.  I can't find the forearm but maybe replacing the hammer levers would give me the few thousandths needed to cock both barrels.  Also good to know about gaining a bit of opening by filing down the top of those guides.   This shotgun was very smooth before it stopped shooting and when I took it apart there was a weight in the stock with some kind of fluid in it.  I assume to balance and maybe buffer some of the recoil.   I'd probably have to do more work to a new forend to get it back running near where it was. 

[Dred Bob]

2 hours ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I didn’t read all of the replies before I replied. After reading them your best bet would be to contact Johnny Meadows as that sounds like a good deal. Once you install the new part I’d be sure to add STOS grease to try to stop the wear.

 

https://pvgunworks.com/product/stos-lube/
 

 

Randy

 

I couldn't find a website for JM.  I'm new to SASS but I've heard the name.  Has he closed his shop?  I can PM him here but I hate to bother him if he's retired.

 

I didn't know you had to or could lube the forearm.  Full disclosure before this I had no idea how these shotguns worked and didn't know that those levers in the forearm cocked the hammers.   It was also interesting to see how the single trigger action worked.  I tried youtubing it before I tore it down and couldn't find squat.   It looks like a simple and reliable system.  I'm not sure what goes wrong with them to have earned the Stoeger ST's such a bad reputation.  So far I love this shotgun, I was really depressed that I might have to retire it to the parts bin or part it out on eBay.   

[Dred Bob]

5 hours ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

I have forearm metal that is in good shape. All that you should need is the front part of the metal where it connects to the action. I can send you a replacement for $35 shipped.

I'll PM you my contact info in case you want this part.

Johnny Meadows 

 

Sorry, I totally missed this message.  This would be perfect.  I'll PM you

 

[Roger Rapid]

 

Dred Bob… 

I don’t believe that the indents you see in the cocking surfaces of the foregrip are from wear; it looks more like someone ground the surfaces with a Dremel to get the action to open further. If it was from normal wear, the wear spots would be two thin lines as shown by black arrows in my photo, below.  As a result, your Stoeger is not cocking both hammers because the stops in the foregrip (red arrows in my photo) are hitting the stop pad in the action before the hammers can fully cock. The black arrows in this photo point to what normal wear would look like after about 1,500 cyclings (6 stages a day, 12 matches a year, 8 years). Even doubling that usage would not result in much more wear than you see here. The best repair method is to spot-weld the two indents you now have and grind them flat so they look like what you see in this photo.

 

The correct way to get a Stoeger s/s - either single- or double-trigger) to open further is to file away some of the two stops as shown at the red arrows in photo. Doing this properly can gain about 3° when the barrels are fully open. However, to keep the barrels from swinging closed, and to aid in the amout of force it takes to open the barrels and cock the hammers requires lightening the hammer springs.

RR

 

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

6 hours ago, Roger Rapid said:

 

Dred Bob… 

I don’t believe that the indents you see in the cocking surfaces of the foregrip are from wear; it looks more like someone ground the surfaces with a Dremel to get the action to open further. If it was from normal wear, the wear spots would be two thin lines as shown by black arrows in my photo, below.  As a result, your Stoeger is not cocking both hammers because the stops in the foregrip (red arrows in my photo) are hitting the stop pad in the action before the hammers can fully cock. The black arrows in this photo point to what normal wear would look like after about 1,500 cyclings (6 stages a day, 12 matches a year, 8 years). Even doubling that usage would not result in much more wear than you see here. The best repair method is to spot-weld the two indents you now have and grind them flat so they look like what you see in this photo.

 

The correct way to get a Stoeger s/s - either single- or double-trigger) to open further is to file away some of the two stops as shown at the red arrows in photo. Doing this properly can gain about 3° when the barrels are fully open. However, to keep the barrels from swinging closed, and to aid in the amout of force it takes to open the barrels and cock the hammers requires lightening the hammer springs.

RR

 

I make a cut on every Stoeger that I work on to make it open wider and yes the cut is made where Roger Rapids red arrows are pointing.

J.M

[Dred Bob]

I really appreciate all the support I've received by SASS members both on this forum and local members at matches.  It really sets this hobby apart.   I've created several threads requesting help and received excellent advice and recommendations.  I've learned a lot but have a lot more to learn.  Thanks to all.  The sport is a lot of fun but the members create an incredible community that is the heart of SASS.