Elco Thunderbolt Turret

[Subdeacon Joe]

The Elco "Thunderbolt" turret represented a significant upgrade in the firepower of PT boats, which were small, fast attack craft used extensively by the U.S. Navy during World War II. Here's a detailed overview of the Elco Thunderbolt turret and its iterations:

Elco Thunderbolt Turret Overview:

1. Design and Operation:
   - The Thunderbolt was a single-person, electrically powered turret designed to enhance the offensive capabilities of PT boats.
   - The turret allowed for rapid and precise aiming, increasing the effectiveness of the boat's firepower against enemy aircraft, small boats, and coastal targets.

2. Armament Configurations:
   - Early Iterations:
     - The initial version of the Thunderbolt turret combined two Oerlikon 20mm cannons with six M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns. This mix provided a versatile and formidable array of weapons capable of engaging various threats.
   - Additional Configurations:
     - Some configurations tested included four Oerlikon 20mm cannons paired with two M2 .50 caliber machine guns.
     - Another setup involved solely four Oerlikon 20mm cannons, emphasizing heavy anti-aircraft and anti-surface firepower.

3. Deployment and Usage:
   - The Thunderbolt turret was quickly employed on PT boats, significantly boosting their combat capabilities.
   - However, these upgrades came towards the end of World War II, resulting in limited combat use. The enhanced PT boats saw some action but did not have a significant impact on the overall naval engagements due to the late deployment.

Impact:

While the Elco Thunderbolt turret represented a technological advancement in PT boat armament, its limited deployment time meant it had little opportunity to influence the war's outcome significantly. Nevertheless, it showcased the ongoing innovation in naval warfare technology and the continuous efforts to improve combat effectiveness.

 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

that would be cool in the bed of the pickup 

[Rip Snorter]

PTs were not small but you would have to wonder how much ammo they could carry since speed was the largest survival factor.

[Subdeacon Joe]

My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

My first thought was GUNTRUCK

 

Imis

[Rip Snorter]

8 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. 

Think of what your ammo weighs, any of these much larger and heavier.  Think of the rate of fire, even of the Bofors, the slowest of the group.  100 rounds of 50 cal is 35 lbs!

[Subdeacon Joe]

14 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Think of what your ammo weighs, any of these much larger and heavier.  Think of the rate of fire, even of the Bofors, the slowest of the group.  100 rounds of 50 cal is 35 lbs!

 

That's why I said a few hundred pounds.   Say, 600 pounds. Likely wouldn't have  much effect on speed. 

 

And for 20mm

 

 

You can get a fair amount of both .50 caliber and 20mm for 600 pounds. 

[Rip Snorter]

M14 takes 308 / 7.62x51 a lightweight compared to the guns actually in the configuration and never mentioned in the initial post!  In that era it could only have been 30-06 and that and the M1919 are not mentioned either.  Each Bofors round was 2 pounds.  I like your stuff a lot, but this doesn't compute, and I am no Spock!

[Chantry]

14 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

PTs were not small but you would have to wonder how much ammo they could carry since speed was the largest survival factor.

 

It's been a while, but IIRC at that point in the war, many of the PT Boats were being used in the gunboat role to hunt down and sink barge traffic between the islands and very high speeds* were not required.  Torpedoes** were useless in this role as the draft of the barges was to shallow for torpedoes.  Also at least some of the Japanese barges were heavily armed and required more firepower to sink them.

 

* Without regular overhauls and/or replacement engines, the top speed of PT Boats was greatly reduced, during the combat in and around Guadalcanal many PT Boats were hard pressed to exceed 30 knots.

 

** At some point, probably late 1943 or early 1944, PT Boats started using aircraft torpedoes and the tubes on the PT Boats were removed and replaced by simpler and lighter cradles that tossed the torpedo over the side.  I've seen pictures of PT boats only carrying 2 torpedoes instead of the standard 4 torpedoes.

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Don't think I have ever seen photographs of actual operational PT Boats with a "Thunderbolt" turret installed.  Twin .50s yes and Stand Up mounts for single 20mm but never a Thunderbolt.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

The weight of the turret with guns and ammo might have made the boat less stable in turns. While it is impressive it probably wouldnt have been near the bad a^& that a couple of miniguns would have. Or distance to the target might have made miniguns ineffective.

 

Imis

[Rip Snorter]

There were no mini guns yet.  Fast forward to Vietnam and the MRF.

[Subdeacon Joe]

The early version of the Elco Thunderbolt turret, which incorporated six M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns along with two Oerlikon 20mm cannons, was designed to significantly boost the firepower of PT boats. Here’s a closer look at this configuration.

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

I don't have the numbers, however the weight penalty of just the articulated power turret machinery and the gun shields had to have been substantial.  Not including the guns themselves and their ammunition.

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:50 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. 

Well, for a while.  That kind of ammunition is bulky, heavy, and rapidly consumed.

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

Those aren't Bofors (40mm), they're Oerlikons (20mm).   

[Subdeacon Joe]

Not the turret,  but related:

 

Is this dazzled enough? Painted in the experimental zebra stripe camouflage scheme tried out on 80-ft Elco PT Boats in the Pacific and Mediterranean.

 

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Not the turret,  but related:

 

Is this dazzled enough? Painted in the experimental zebra stripe camouflage scheme tried out on 80-ft Elco PT Boats in the Pacific and Mediterranean.

 

 

       .......... looks ike a zebra in prison clothes .........  🙃