Subdeacon Joe Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 The Elco "Thunderbolt" turret represented a significant upgrade in the firepower of PT boats, which were small, fast attack craft used extensively by the U.S. Navy during World War II. Here's a detailed overview of the Elco Thunderbolt turret and its iterations: Elco Thunderbolt Turret Overview: 1. Design and Operation: - The Thunderbolt was a single-person, electrically powered turret designed to enhance the offensive capabilities of PT boats. - The turret allowed for rapid and precise aiming, increasing the effectiveness of the boat's firepower against enemy aircraft, small boats, and coastal targets. 2. Armament Configurations: - Early Iterations: - The initial version of the Thunderbolt turret combined two Oerlikon 20mm cannons with six M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns. This mix provided a versatile and formidable array of weapons capable of engaging various threats. - Additional Configurations: - Some configurations tested included four Oerlikon 20mm cannons paired with two M2 .50 caliber machine guns. - Another setup involved solely four Oerlikon 20mm cannons, emphasizing heavy anti-aircraft and anti-surface firepower. 3. Deployment and Usage: - The Thunderbolt turret was quickly employed on PT boats, significantly boosting their combat capabilities. - However, these upgrades came towards the end of World War II, resulting in limited combat use. The enhanced PT boats saw some action but did not have a significant impact on the overall naval engagements due to the late deployment. Impact: While the Elco Thunderbolt turret represented a technological advancement in PT boat armament, its limited deployment time meant it had little opportunity to influence the war's outcome significantly. Nevertheless, it showcased the ongoing innovation in naval warfare technology and the continuous efforts to improve combat effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 that would be cool in the bed of the pickup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 PTs were not small but you would have to wonder how much ammo they could carry since speed was the largest survival factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 My first thought was GUNTRUCK Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 8 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. Think of what your ammo weighs, any of these much larger and heavier. Think of the rate of fire, even of the Bofors, the slowest of the group. 100 rounds of 50 cal is 35 lbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 14 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said: Think of what your ammo weighs, any of these much larger and heavier. Think of the rate of fire, even of the Bofors, the slowest of the group. 100 rounds of 50 cal is 35 lbs! That's why I said a few hundred pounds. Say, 600 pounds. Likely wouldn't have much effect on speed. And for 20mm You can get a fair amount of both .50 caliber and 20mm for 600 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 M14 takes 308 / 7.62x51 a lightweight compared to the guns actually in the configuration and never mentioned in the initial post! In that era it could only have been 30-06 and that and the M1919 are not mentioned either. Each Bofors round was 2 pounds. I like your stuff a lot, but this doesn't compute, and I am no Spock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 14 hours ago, Rip Snorter said: PTs were not small but you would have to wonder how much ammo they could carry since speed was the largest survival factor. It's been a while, but IIRC at that point in the war, many of the PT Boats were being used in the gunboat role to hunt down and sink barge traffic between the islands and very high speeds* were not required. Torpedoes** were useless in this role as the draft of the barges was to shallow for torpedoes. Also at least some of the Japanese barges were heavily armed and required more firepower to sink them. * Without regular overhauls and/or replacement engines, the top speed of PT Boats was greatly reduced, during the combat in and around Guadalcanal many PT Boats were hard pressed to exceed 30 knots. ** At some point, probably late 1943 or early 1944, PT Boats started using aircraft torpedoes and the tubes on the PT Boats were removed and replaced by simpler and lighter cradles that tossed the torpedo over the side. I've seen pictures of PT boats only carrying 2 torpedoes instead of the standard 4 torpedoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Don't think I have ever seen photographs of actual operational PT Boats with a "Thunderbolt" turret installed. Twin .50s yes and Stand Up mounts for single 20mm but never a Thunderbolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 The weight of the turret with guns and ammo might have made the boat less stable in turns. While it is impressive it probably wouldnt have been near the bad a^& that a couple of miniguns would have. Or distance to the target might have made miniguns ineffective. Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 There were no mini guns yet. Fast forward to Vietnam and the MRF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 The early version of the Elco Thunderbolt turret, which incorporated six M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns along with two Oerlikon 20mm cannons, was designed to significantly boost the firepower of PT boats. Here’s a closer look at this configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I don't have the numbers, however the weight penalty of just the articulated power turret machinery and the gun shields had to have been substantial. Not including the guns themselves and their ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 On 6/26/2024 at 6:50 PM, Subdeacon Joe said: My guess is that the minimal reduction in speed from carry a few hundred pounds of ammunition was thought to be more than offset by the ability to fend off air attacks. Well, for a while. That kind of ammunition is bulky, heavy, and rapidly consumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 Those aren't Bofors (40mm), they're Oerlikons (20mm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 Not the turret, but related: Is this dazzled enough? Painted in the experimental zebra stripe camouflage scheme tried out on 80-ft Elco PT Boats in the Pacific and Mediterranean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Not the turret, but related: Is this dazzled enough? Painted in the experimental zebra stripe camouflage scheme tried out on 80-ft Elco PT Boats in the Pacific and Mediterranean. .......... looks ike a zebra in prison clothes ......... 🙃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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