Colt Lightning help ID and value update, it works fine, found colt letter

[Cahawbakid]

Working an Estate Sale and what jumps out of a closet?

 

looks like it has been nickel plated at some point. The decorative stuff is all sterling silver. 
 

It’s not operational at this point, the slide Won’t open.

 

I have to say it’s a pretty cool shooting iron.

 

What information can anyone give me?

 

The Rifle works great, the lock up issue was user error. It cycles and the elevator moves up when cycled 
 

 

 

Looks like 1885 for a Manufacturer date. 
 

The Slide release is not engaging, just flops loose. I think it may be missing a part and that’s why is locked up.

 

I’m almost certain it’s in 44-40

 

 

 

 

 

S# 114##

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Edited February 5 by Cahawbakid

[Yul Lose]

I’d call Spencer at Lock Stock and Barrel or PM Phantom and get their advice. Pretty sure it’s a 44-40. Might want to be really careful with it as it may have a jammed cartridge in the chamber that’s locking it up.  Someone may have tried to load a cartridge other than 44-40 in it.

Edited January 28 by Yul Lose

[Texas Jack Black]

 Looks like 44-40  also looks like someone made a barbeque gun.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Oh my!

 

That is one be-you-tifful rifle.   If it worked, I'd say it's worth a pretty penny.  No honest idea of what it would fetch.  But the fact that it's non functional, to me, makes it not worth all that much.  Absolutely a .44-40.  How's the bore?

Is there any documentation on it?  If this was done at the factory, which I bet is unlikely, that would greatly enhance its value, even in a non working state.

 

Generically, it's something I'd enjoy owning.  I'd send it to Lassiter to have it fixed, and then I'd shoot it.  If I was trying to sell it, I'd still contact him, and ask him he'd be willing to look at it to see if it CAN be fixed.  If it can be, I'd say fix it unless it would be stupid expensive to do.   I'd also get a Colt letter.

Knowing I'd have to do some potentially expensive repair work would make me hesitant to pay a lot of money for it, as is.  If I saw that an an estate sale that I walked in on off the street, I'd offer $150.  I'd go as high as $250.   Would not go any higher on the very real possibility that it could never be anything but a wallhanger without spending a LOT of money.  If it were fully functional, I probably couldn't afford it.

[Bailey Creek,5759]

Put a Dowl rod down the Barrel and make sure it is unloaded first.

After that i have no idea.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

You say it won't open, but also that the slide release is flopping loose.   I see that the hammer is down, will the gun open if you thumb cock the hammer?

There is a very real possibility that a specific internal part that has been described to me as a kind of "teeter totter," has cracked after a round was fired, and that's why it won't open.   I've had that problem on both real Colts, and reproductions.  It's a design flaw.  You may be able to jiggle it loose or even pull the pump back with a lot of oomph.  

Of course, I don't want to dismiss the concerns of others have raised about a live cartridge in chamber, but I tend to doubt it.  The action is closed.  There's no way you could close it on a cartridge other than a .44-40 or a .38-40.  Other .44's won't chamber, to say nothing of a .45.  But could someone have forced it?  You can't rule out stupidity.  

Are you comfortable with removing the magazine tube, and putting it back?   That'd go a long way to letting you know if it's loaded, or if a cartridge is stuck under the carrier, which could also be the problem.

 

These are some wild guesses based on some difficulties that I've had with my own Lightnings.  I enjoy shooting them, but I am no gunsmith.  I can only describe what some have said to me.    

[Bailey Creek,5759]

Like to have it.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Chambered in the .44 CLMR

 

Same as the .44 WCF...but Colt didn't really want to put Winchester anything on their rifles.

 

Would need more info. to ascertain any reasonable guess on value.

 

Phantom

 

Cool workmanship though.

[Cahawbakid]

The only issue with the thing seems to be user errors, it works fine . I’m just not as familiar as I could be with lightning function 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

How did you get the slide to open?   I am curious. 

Have you test fired it?  How's the bore?  

[Cahawbakid]

I just gave it a little jiggle , pulled, and it opened. I wasn’t holding my mouth rite when I first said it would not open…. I really didn’t try hard enough.

 

The bore seems dark, but no pitting that I see and it has strong rifling at the muzzle

Edited February 2 by Cahawbakid

[watab kid]

its an interesting rifle , im not real into the ornamentation , but that seems very well done and looks high quality , as a wall hanger it would catch attention , but if it works and is shootable that would be a huge plus , how old do you think it is ? 

[Cahawbakid]

serial # indicates 1885

[Yul Lose]

It would be very interesting to find out when and by whom the ornamentation was done. Can’t really make out the cursive lettering but it may hold the clues to finding out who commissioned the work and when. Very nice find.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Hmm...   Interesting.   This argues against the "teeter totter" problem I mentioned above, but it's still a possibility.  Or may have just been a fluke.   If you, or anyone, wants to shoot it, I think it's a good bet to send it to Lassiter for a once over.

When Yul mentioned the cursive lettering, I looked at the images again, and realized which pic he was talking about.   I flipped it upside down.  

I'd say that first letter is a J or a T.  The middle is a G.  The last letter is possibly a T or an F.     Don't know if that's of any use.

I hate cursive.  Never use it myself, and I see it so rarely that even the neatest most "perfect" letters are hard for me to decipher! 

This is a very curious gun.   A lot of things may remain a mystery, but it is a curiosity.   I'd still get a Colt letter.  I doubt the embellishments to the stock are from them, but they would tell you if the nickel finish is original or not.

[watab kid]

thats a nice old one that also makes it more interesting , i had wondered at the initials as well , also have issues with the cursive but it does look eloquent 

[Texas Jack Black]

  Not collectable but a nice wall hanger and a backyard plinker.

 

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[Cahawbakid]

S

Edited February 5 by Cahawbakid

[Cahawbakid]

Well, like the blind pig finding an acorn, look, what I turned up.

[Cholla]

I recommend contacting Rock Island or Julia as they have the buyers with deep pockets. Reata Pass could also get some folks with lots of folding money. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Well, that does show that the embellishment was not done at the factory, nor was the nickel plating.  But, it does prove to have been an antique. 

Not sure what all of this means for "value" as originality and condition are everything to "collectors."   But nice custom work is nothing to be sneezed at.  I can not offer a reasonable guess as to value.

 

As an aside, for as expensive as they are, Colt letters provide very little information compared to what you get from other places for a lot less money.

[watab kid]

 nice to have that letter tho ,