Assassin Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 9 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said: This is the first if seen this type of statement, what are you typically breaking in these guns? Loading gates, extractors, bolt tabs (bolts), main springs, rear stocks, firing pins, lifters, bent levers, etc. 73's and 66's are basically junk in my opinion. However, they are necessary if playing fast with the big dogs. Kind of like a race car or motorcycle and having to work on it every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Assassin said: Loading gates, extractors, bolt tabs (bolts), main springs, rear stocks, firing pins, lifters, bent levers, etc. 73's and 66's are basically junk in my opinion. However, they are necessary if playing fast with the big dogs. Kind of like a race car or motorcycle and having to work on it every week. Maybe I'm wrong, I am new to this game. But it would seem to me you'd have to be running and slamming these hard to bend a lever. Extractors makes sense considering the round count and constant slamming over the rim. The firing pin, lifters and mainspring are all things I'd like to upgrade. I didn't know the rear stock was an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Kingsley said: What is the weight of your milled/lightened carrier? And boy does it appear Gunfighter Industries is jumping into cowboy full force. Hope it’s true. Nice to have more then a couple suppliers for parts. cardboard cowboy Takes them from around 4 oz. down to 2 1/4 oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said: Maybe I'm wrong, I am new to this game. But it would seem to me you'd have to be running and slamming these hard to bend a lever. Extractors makes sense considering the round count and constant slamming over the rim. The firing pin, lifters and mainspring are all things I'd like to upgrade. I didn't know the rear stock was an issue It really doesn't take lot to bend a lever. I run the Cowboys and Indians billet lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER said: It really doesn't take lot to bend a lever. I run the Cowboys and Indians billet lever. No kidding? Hmm...well guess that's something to look out for then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsley Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Thx Sgt. I also run the billet lever. Have a bin full of bent standard levers. CC doesn’t take much of a bend to ruin timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Oregon Ace said: There are some new slick parts coming that will basically be super light but indestructible. Remember their background is Aerospace machining and have insane capabilities and equipment way beyond most shops. I am donating a rifle as a guinea pig and and test unit in exchange for parts. I just like new stuff and this seemed like a good opportunity to try some stuff no one has used yet so I jumped on it. It was offered because I bought a badge and got a rifle coming they needed to laser scan. NDA is for the parts being made I can't disclose what or the materials being used. I can say these parts are being rapidly implemented The question is, when? Is there any idea from them of when we might see parts in the mail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ace Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Right I hear that, sounds like you can go with any kit on the market right now and it will fit your needs just fine. I wouldn't worry about waiting on a next best thing if you are happy with what's out there now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 29, 2023 Author Share Posted April 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, Oregon Ace said: Right I hear that, sounds like you can go with any kit on the market right now and it will fit your needs just fine. I wouldn't worry about waiting on a next best thing if you are happy with what's out there now That's my point, the very best players in this game are doing that...not me...at this point I could run a stock gun and still be slow.... I'm asking what the new high end parts are going to accomplish to justify boutique pricing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Mark Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Enjoying this thread. You can do this to that rifle that will not impact any decisions you make and provide a serviceable rifle: Replace the lever safety spring with a lighter spring. Replace the hammer spring with reduced spring. Remove the lever and grind the sharp edges off the cams, both sides. Remove and replace the stock action springs with the heavier of the two wire springs. They will probably need the ends cut off and fit. Grease lube the stock toggles and cams the action springs ride on. Bend upward the stock trigger spring slightly if your trigger pull is too crazy. Mine was 9# stock when purchased. NOTHING MORE. Go Shooting. Decide what is next after a while. All in-stock from Longhunter website: Pioneer Coiled Safety Spring for M1873 - $9.00 Sure Hit Uberti 1873 Lightened Hammer Spring - $36.00 SliXsprings Lifter Lever Springs - $50.00 For less than $100 you have a very smooth rifle vs stock. Maybe add some leather too if you choose. Without positive slam-down, you probably should keep the heavy brass stock carrier because the weight is needed to fully drop it back down. The rifle will cycle with one finger since you have not yet added a short stroke kit. It will not cycle held upside-down without positive slam-down but it will be pretty darn nice vs as received. Actually, good enough until your shooting volume and speed become an issue. Opinion Only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 29, 2023 Author Share Posted April 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Pb Mark said: Enjoying this thread. You can do this to that rifle that will not impact any decisions you make and provide a serviceable rifle: Replace the lever safety spring with a lighter spring. Replace the hammer spring with reduced spring. Remove the lever and grind the sharp edges off the cams, both sides. Remove and replace the stock action springs with the heavier of the two wire springs. They will probably need the ends cut off and fit. Grease lube the stock toggles and cams the action springs ride on. Bend upward the stock trigger spring slightly if your trigger pull is too crazy. Mine was 9# stock when purchased. NOTHING MORE. Go Shooting. Decide what is next after a while. All in-stock from Longhunter website: Pioneer Coiled Safety Spring for M1873 - $9.00 Sure Hit Uberti 1873 Lightened Hammer Spring - $36.00 SliXsprings Lifter Lever Springs - $50.00 For less than $100 you have a very smooth rifle vs stock. Maybe add some leather too if you choose. Without positive slam-down, you probably should keep the heavy brass stock carrier because the weight is needed to fully drop it back down. The rifle will cycle with one finger since you have not yet added a short stroke kit. It will not cycle held upside-down without positive slam-down but it will be pretty darn nice vs as received. Actually, good enough until your shooting volume and speed become an issue. Opinion Only. This makes great sense, good advice I think. But, it is a bit wrong for me, I think....ill explain, get some thoughts, you guys tell me. Revolvers...I need nothing yet...practice maybe? Lol Shotgun...i cant out run it....unless they make a reloading tool I'm not seeing lol. But the rifle, I have been a rifle shooter for a long time, I can make very quick target transitions and basically point and shoot. To give an idea, the only miss I've had with a rifle in CAS has been because I jacked a round and didn't have leather so no reload avalible. For now, I am limited by the rifle, and myself on pistols and shotguns so I'm looking to make the rifle faster. I believe what caused me to jack a round was hammer follow because I out ran the gun. Part of that is I can't leave my thumb planted because the lever throw is so long, so as I come back up I caught the trigger as I closed the lever. This also is adding to the habit of wrapping my thumb because it's moving to throw. I noticed last match that I am staring at the next target waiting on the lever to close so obviously I'm faster than the rifle, so time to make the rifle faster. I knew this going in.... my alias is One Gun Jimmy cause I got three guns, but only shoot one well......it IS the RIFLE lol. I shot a pards short and slicked 73, it sounded like a Semi auto on one target. I'm no elite marksman, but my buddies and I like to have friendly competition when plinking or shooting around, they no longer try with rifles in speed or accuracy lol Not bragging or boasting, point is, I don't agree with throwing money at a problem when practice will do....but I THINK, my rifle is in need of some money to improve....Not just cause it's the "in" thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Mark Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 My stock rifle (figured it is all of them due to the lawyers) needed the thumb wrap or lever hold-down just to get the lever safety to release. It was basically dry inside lacking required lubrication. The stock action springs were getting ground into by cycling the lever on the sharp edges of the lever cams. The stock hammer spring was fast enough to not outrun the gun and I would occasionally jack unfired rounds because the lever safety didn't allow the trigger to be pulled at the correct time. I do believe Taylor often puts a metal magazine follower in their imports on some of the new ones and would be curious if yours has one already. My Cimmaron had their nice, tapered magazine spring, but a plastic follower. Eventually (sooner than later due to corrosion potential that is common) you will need to get that endcap off. The above previous mentioned parts, plus a short stroke kit and matched carrier makes for a budget speed gun. Lots and lots of different ways to go with the speed parts absolutely. A short stoke kit cannot be successful without the basic smoothing / reducing tension parts. The additional leverage required prevents it. My eyes would not be able to find that shiny front sight on the end of a shiny rifle barrel lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 29, 2023 Author Share Posted April 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Pb Mark said: My stock rifle (figured it is all of them due to the lawyers) needed the thumb wrap or lever hold-down just to get the lever safety to release. It was basically dry inside lacking required lubrication. The stock action springs were getting ground into by cycling the lever on the sharp edges of the lever cams. The stock hammer spring was fast enough to not outrun the gun and I would occasionally jack unfired rounds because the lever safety didn't allow the trigger to be pulled at the correct time. I do believe Taylor often puts a metal magazine follower in their imports on some of the new ones and would be curious if yours has one already. My Cimmaron had their nice, tapered magazine spring, but a plastic follower. Eventually (sooner than later due to corrosion potential that is common) you will need to get that endcap off. The above previous mentioned parts, plus a short stroke kit and matched carrier makes for a budget speed gun. Lots and lots of different ways to go with the speed parts absolutely. A short stoke kit cannot be successful without the basic smoothing / reducing tension parts. The additional leverage required prevents it. My eyes would not be able to find that shiny front sight on the end of a shiny rifle barrel lol I believe as my eyes age I will have to put a bead on in it lol. I know it wasn't the lever safety because the hammer fell, but I do agree with all the small parts suggestions. I'll let you know what is in the tube as I am going to definitly sleeve it since it seems to be a consensus that It's worth it as the gun gets faster. I think so far... Pioneer or Boogie SS (still a little in the air as to which) Lightened brass carrier from Victory Coiled saftey spring Slix springs lifter springs .38 mag tube insert with stainless spring and follower. And a fine polish and work of all mating surfaces. That should get me a short smooth rifle. Hammer springs, maybe coil conversion main, lightened firing pin extension, ect. Can wait till I see how that runs. Seems I can do all mentioned with no chance of light strikes or reliability. Once I get faster than that I'll start lightening springs and pins and fine tune for reliability and absolute speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Mark Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Yep, if I was building one wanted the best currently out there, my vote would be C&I with the billet lever and add in a heat-treated new hammer. Patriot Ordinance Factory now builds a "Tombstone" modern fast throw lever action carbine. Aircraft grade stuff all the way around owned by aircraft guy. Maybe toggles? Might think otherwise, but love to have one. Fightlite is making the Herring 2024 tactical lever action also. Maybe toggles but better probability from POF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Mark Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Just pulled up the owner's manual for the POF and the toggle links fall out when you take the cover plates off lol....... Gotta be some very nice toggles out there in the POF Tombstone guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 29, 2023 Author Share Posted April 29, 2023 31 minutes ago, Pb Mark said: Yep, if I was building one wanted the best currently out there, my vote would be C&I with the billet lever and add in a heat-treated new hammer. Patriot Ordinance Factory now builds a "Tombstone" modern fast throw lever action carbine. Aircraft grade stuff all the way around owned by aircraft guy. Maybe toggles? Might think otherwise, but love to have one. Fightlite is making the Herring 2024 tactical lever action also. Maybe toggles but better probability from POF. One of my issues with the C&I lever is it won't match my shinny gun :-( But if this one breaks...then I will be figuring it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 29, 2023 Author Share Posted April 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Pb Mark said: Just pulled up the owner's manual for the POF and the toggle links fall out when you take the cover plates off lol....... Gotta be some very nice toggles out there in the POF Tombstone guns. This may not be as true as you think, just a thought, I'm sure they are cool and that lever looks bada$$ but they are only 9mm. So the toggles may be shorter and don't have to be any stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 7 hours ago, Oregon Ace said: Oh for sure, not even an option right now I would say. But I am that guy when someone comes out with that new product if it is good I will build another gun or switch out to run them Ha Where are you currently shooting? What guns do you shoot now? Cowboy shooting, not that black plastic stuff. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 said: Where are you currently shooting? What guns do you shoot now? Cowboy shooting, not that black plastic stuff. Lol The answer. https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/347898-lets-talk-pistolas-friday-night/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ace Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 said: Where are you currently shooting? What guns do you shoot now? Cowboy shooting, not that black plastic stuff. Lol I have a couple Colts SAA but they are not for shooting up. So I guess I am shooting whatever I want just have to make a decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Oregon Ace said: I have a couple Colts SAA but they are not for shooting up. So I guess I am shooting whatever I want just have to make a decision When is the deadline? When is the first match you plan to shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ace Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 No deadline we have a private range, have to train for about 6 months first running drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Have you been to a local match at least? If not, your "drills" might be for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 46 minutes ago, Oregon Ace said: No deadline we have a private range, have to train for about 6 months first running drills. If you have been a shooter . If you have good general firearms saftey. Then go to a club when there is a match. Meet people...its really what the sport is about. They will be very nice, very helpful and if you seem like a competent person you will most likely be offered to try some guns and join in the fun. You are just missing out on 6 months of fun and real scenario practice in my opinion. I went to my first match, I had NEVER fired a lever gun before that day....100s of other types, but no lever guns. They guys and gals there WILL NOT CARE that you stumble and take longer than most....might rib you a bit, thick skin is required in this game.... These are not your USPCA or 3gun Gung-Fu masters that create some barier to entry....come with a good attitude and respectful demeanor and you will be welcome to stay and learn on the clock. NO ONE will care how slow or how fast you are, now or in 6months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 9 hours ago, Oregon Ace said: I have a couple Colts SAA but they are not for shooting up. So I guess I am shooting whatever I want just have to make a decision If those Colts are not for shooting are they just for lookin at?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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