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Warden Callaway

Marlin 1894cs feeding crosswise sometimes - fixed video added

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Posted (edited)

I love this little gunn made in 1984.   But in the several years I've had it, its had a nasty habit of occasionally feeding one a bit sideways.

 

456934703_Marlin1894crossfeedAug2020.jpg.e1db68ab33cc0d660af06dd47552c120.jpg

 

I've tried different bullet shapes.  I've messed a bit with the carrier.  Of course,  if I run it slowly and deliberately,  it feeds fine. But if I speed up, this glitch will show up.

 

I tried swapping out the ejector.  This one came with a funky design with a long spring.  No improvement. 

 

1257934567_Marlin1894c357ejectorAug2020.jpg.0c7c02b2b92d42bc4564f45f8ba4a45e.jpg

 

In the night,  I got out of Sawmill Mary's 1894 CBL in 357 and started swapping parts.  Changed out the carrier and other combinations of parts. Nothing helped.

 

Then I noticed the difference in extractor and place in bolt face.  

 

1891298454_Marlin1894cboltfacesAug2020.jpg.a3ab29f5c8397b40404bf49d9096f394.jpg

 

Bolt on left is out of 1894cs.  Bolt on right is from a newer JM CBL.

 

Two significant differences.  One, on the CBC bolt, the ejector hole is below center line of fireing pin vs at center on the 1894c.  Two,  the shape of the extractor nose is much different.  The CBL extractor has a very heavy angle shape to the front face.  The 1894c is just flat.

 

I put the CBL bolt in the 1894cs and ran three 10 round magazine's full through it as fast as I am able without a bobble. 

 

While I think I've found the problem,  I'm not sure if I can replicate the shape on the 1894c extractor.  Or even if I bought an extractor like the CBL it will work in the 1894cs bolt given the different hole location. 

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway

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Try a stock Marlin extractor in the bolt of the rifle that is having issues. 

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I would highly recommend a extractor claw from Ranger Point Precision. I was having a feed problem with my early 94 carbine, it solved it.

Good people to do business with. You may want to take out the extractor and clean the hole out first, they can get full of crud and not work as good.

  Rob 

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48 minutes ago, Wicker Nash said:

Try a stock Marlin extractor in the bolt of the rifle that is having issues. 

 

That is the stock extractor.  

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Interesting,  the contact area is much wider and it lacks the “hump” I usually see on Marlin extractors.   I would replace it with another Marlin or a Ranger Point.  Some extractors get wear areas over time an don’t reliably grip the case.  

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I recall when a lot more people were running Marlins that some would roll the rifle a little right, letting the shell roll out of the port slightly.

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WC, go to the RPP site and under extractor, look at the pictures of the various locations Marlin used over the years.

HINT-Shim the right side of the carrier at the pivot screw, to remove as much side play as you can.

That bottom ejector isn't OEM for that yr. The top one is.

How does it feed if you remove the ejector?

What caliber is this? 

OLG 

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Lumpy,

  The lower ejector is for a early model carbine, before cross bolt safety, I put a later model one in mine, works fine. The extractor in these early models are made of spring steel like the extractor on the bolt of a 336. I change to RP, Happy Cowboy, my Cal is 357.

Rob

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9 minutes ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said:

Lumpy,

  The lower ejector is for a early model carbine, before cross bolt safety, I put a later model one in mine, works fine. The extractor in these early models are made of spring steel like the extractor on the bolt of a 336. I change to RP, Happy Cowboy, my Cal is 357.

Rob

 

My .44 cal,  94 made in 1981 has no safety and uses the top ejector in the picture. 

I bought the rifle NIB.

The ejector in the lower picture was used till the mid-late 1970's.

The RPP extractor is what Marlin should have come with, instead of the 'bobby-pin' version they used.

OLG 

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Howdy Warden.

 

I think if anyone is capable of fixing this problem, it will be you.

 

The suggestions, comments above are good.   But I got a question:

When you extract a round from the chamber while the next round is on the carrier, HOW CLOSE do the rims of those 2 cartridges

get before the empty is kicked out?

 

IF the rim of your extracted case is 'kissing' the rim of the cartridge on the carrier, your next round can be pushed sideways and

start causing your problem.   If this is the situation, holler back and I'll try to give you the cure.

 

You or Sawmill Mary can feel free to call me if ya want:   865 / 696-1996

 

..........Widder

 

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Mine is made in 1980 Micro Groove 357, it came with the ejector in the lower picture. It also has the same square loading port as in the picture in this post. the later ones have a radius in the front of the loading port.

He could have the wrong year.

If you look at the bolts in the picture the extractor hole is full of crud, a good cleaning may help.

  Rob

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1894c made in 1984 and has cross bolt safety.   To be specific,  it's a 1894cs. S for safety.  It's 357/38.  

 

The problem occurs with either ejector so it's not the funky ejector that's the problem.   

 

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1227600

 

It ejects just fine.  It's the start of the feed cycle that it crosses up occasionally.  

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Remove the extractor, and give it a go.

Shim'n that carrier may help.

Does start to sound like a carrier timing issue.

Did you try switching levers between rifles?

OLG 

 

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Posted (edited)

Try it without any ejector in place.

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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2 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Try it without any ejector in place.

OLG 

 

I'm going to have to think that out.  As I recall, it never gets crossways on the first cartridge.   So if I take the extractor out and I cycle the action,  the round us going to stay in the chamber.  

 

Being that I've never had it happen on first cartridge,   means Widder is probably onto the problem.

 

I have not changed out levers.

 

I'll take a look at the carrier and see how much gap is in the joint. 

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I'm think'n(run for cover:lol:)that the case could be 'bouncing' off the 'wall' of the ejector.

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it happen.

Give it a go....

OLG 

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3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I'm think'n(run for cover:lol:)that the case could be 'bouncing' off the 'wall' of the ejector.

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it happen.

Give it a go....

OLG 

 

After even more thought..,  you're saying take the extractor out of the bolt and put the bolt back in.  Throw a dummy on the carrier and slam the lever forward to see if the dummy tries to jump out - maybe because it hit the ejector?  So you wouldn't cycling the action. Just checking the point where it's lifted to full height. 

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3 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

After even more thought..,  you're saying take the extractor out of the bolt and put the bolt back in.  Throw a dummy on the carrier and slam the lever forward to see if the dummy tries to jump out - maybe because it hit the ejector?  So you wouldn't cycling the action. Just checking the point where it's lifted to full height. 

 

Remove ejector. ;)

OLG 

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Hallelujah and pass the biscuits! 

 

Just proves that a blind sow can find an acorn once in a while.

 

I knocked out the old ejector and replaced it with a new one.  Worked even worse and needed polishing and adjustment. I couldn't hardly close the bolt for the drag of the ejector going into the cut in the barrel. 

 

So I went back to the old ejector rather than start over with a new one.  But before I put it back in,  I buffed it some to make it super clean.  And cleaned the hole in the bolt. 

 

I've ran two magazines full through it without a hitch in the get along. Daylight comes I'll take it out and run some live rounds through it.

 

I dismissed the cleaning of the ejector and hole because the ejector seemed to be functioning just fine.  We'll see.

 

Thanks to all that helped me think this through. 

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Hallelujah and pass the biscuits! 

 

Just proves that a blind sow can find an acorn once in a while.

 

I knocked out the old ejector and replaced it with a new one.  Worked even worse and needed polishing and adjustment. I couldn't hardly close the bolt for the drag of the ejector going into the cut in the barrel. 

 

So I went back to the old ejector rather than start over with a new one.  But before I put it back in,  I buffed it some to make it super clean.  And cleaned the hole in the bolt. 

 

I've ran two magazines full through it without a hitch in the get along. Daylight comes I'll take it out and run some live rounds through it.

 

I dismissed the cleaning of the ejector and hole because the ejector seemed to be functioning just fine.  We'll see.

 

Thanks to all that helped me think this through. 

 

Ejector or Extractor?

Ejector  fits into the left side of the receiver alongside the bolt.

Extractor fits into the hole on the right side of the bolt.

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18 hours ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said:

 You may want to take out the extractor and clean the hole out first, they can get full of crud and not work as good.

  Rob 

 

Warden,

RRR spotted your 'crud' situation right off.   And I thought you were following all the information as it was posted to

check out your problem, which is probably why most of us didn't make further comments about that crud.

 

Good job RRR.

 

Anyhow, sure hope that solved your problem.

 

Most folks think Marlin put that hole in the bolt face to hold the Extractor.    NAW!       It was put there

to gather crud and aggrevate us with problems..... :D

 

..........Widder

 

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2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Anyhow, sure hope that solved your problem.

 

Me too.  I've seen crud in the ejector hole pleantyof times. A couple of old Marlins were completely plugged and corroded in place. But this one didn't show any symptoms.  It flexed in and out without any alarming restraint.  Even when out,  there wasn't much in the hole and the ejector only had a coat of scum on it.  Apparently it was enough.  

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OK, WC you R&R'd the extractor(that hooky-thing in the bolt:P).

How'd the live fire test go?

Got video?  ;)

OLG 

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On 8/4/2020 at 10:20 AM, Rough 'N Ready Rob said:

I would highly recommend a extractor claw from Ranger Point Precision. I was having a feed problem with my early 94 carbine, it solved it.

Good people to do business with. You may want to take out the extractor and clean the hole out first, they can get full of crud and not work as good.

  Rob 

As a side benefit the Ranger Point extractor throws spent brass more to the side than the original extractor which threw it forward..  I used to lose a lot of brass down range but now the pickers can find a lot more of it.  :FlagAm:

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31 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

OK, WC you R&R'd the extractor(that hooky-thing in the bolt:P).

How'd the live fire test go?

Got video?  ;)

OLG 

 

Sorry,  no video.   I just came in from running two magazines of 10 each.   Had one hangup on both runs. 

 

This is with the ejector with the normal length spring.  I'll put the one that came with it and try again. 

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9 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Have you shimmied the carrier? 

OLG 

 

No.  What would I shim it with?

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33 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

No.  What would I shim it with?

 

Howdy Warden.

I have found that cutting to appropriate sizes, a feeler gauge has MANY thicknesses to shim just about everything.

You might want to check that out.

 

I use a thick piece to get into certain areas of the bolt on the Henry .22

And I've used a super thin piece to help shim a rear site to help make it tight in the dovetail.

 

Best regards.

 

..........Widder

 

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14 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I have found that cutting to appropriate sizes, a feeler gauge has MANY thicknesses to shim just about everything.

 

I've used feeler gauge for shim stock before.   I just figured OLG was more sophisticated.   

 

Seens like it would be a pain to get in place. I'm assuming make a washer. 

 

I'll see how much it may need and try a layer of electrical tape.   If that shows promise,  maybe I'll get my neighbor to TIG weld several warts around the area. 

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3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I've used feeler gauge for shim stock before.   I just figured OLG was more sophisticated.   

 

Seens like it would be a pain to get in place. I'm assuming make a washer. 

 

I'll see how much it may need and try a layer of electrical tape.   If that shows promise,  maybe I'll get my neighbor to TIG weld several warts around the area. 

You want the carrier to really favor the left side of the rec'r.

Shim stock works well here. You want it to swing freely with as little side to side play as possible.

You don't want this shim to have a larger OD than the area of the carrier.

OLG 

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I could get a .014 feller gauge blade between the carrier and receiver at the pivot pint.  So I made a shim washer.   

 

I did have a #4 washer in inventory but it was twice as thick as needed.  I tried pushing it across sandpaper with a screwdriver point in the hole.   But after spending a lot of time looking for the washer on the floor when it went flying like a Tiddlywink and only reducing the thickness by a few thousands, I abandoned that approach.

 

I found an old filler gauge that had been used for shim stock before.   It had the .015 blade already amputated.  I drilled a hole and clamped the blade in the bench vise and used a Dremel tool to round and cut it off. Then a hone to remove any burrs. 

 

1890315616_Martin1894cwasherAug2020.jpg.23d1f7d4467f6a26e55eeb43b194f6d3.jpg

 

Installined it on right side. It took some dexterity and fumbling.  Ended up using tweezers to slip the washer about in place and a toothpick to align it in the hole. 

 

I just tried it minuets ago.  Crosswise jam on first round.  Continued to jam crosswise on most other rounds. 

 

Maybe I need it on left side?

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I've never used shims, although I have seen a couple Marlins where the owner inserted one.

 

Warden, if you want to solve carrier wobble at the rear area, you can always build up the carrier tail and recut/resize

appropriately to achieve your desire thickness.

 

All that being stated, I've never worried about carrier wobble because I set up my carriers to address more

of the front end area being centered to the chamber and not worry about minor loose fitting at the rear section.

 

There is A LOT of stuff that goes on between the rear of the carrier and the front of the carrier in the short amount of time

it takes to cycle the action.   When all is said and done, ya want the cartridge to stay positioned 'reasonably' correct on the carrier

and of course, the front of the carrier correctly positioned to allow most any bullet style to enter the chamber correctly.

 

Even if you have a perfect carrier that has no wobble, ya gotta make sure your cartridge sits on the carrier with minimal

movements from side to side.

I've already mentioned one of the issues that effects that by checking out the 'kissing rims' of the extracted cartridge and

the one sitting on the carrier.

 

..........Widder

 

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