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Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438

POLICE CLOSED MY RANGE

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Pard, the GOVERNOR closed your range, not the police.  The police do not have any decision-making authority in that matter.  I was always amazed at how many people thought the police establish speed limits, set up stop signs, decide who gets custody of children, pets, or property.  Their job is law enforcement, not law making.

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Actually, the Governor declared the gun businesses and ranges "essential", and then hours later changed his mind and declared them "non-essential".  Since his general order required the closing of non-essential businesses, that swept the range into the pot, along with every gun retailer in the state.  That means that you cannot buy, sell or transfer a gun anywhere in this Commonwealth; that you cannot buy ammunition; and that you cannot buy reloading components.  And since we already have a ban on internet ammo/components purchasing, you better hope that your supplies are flush.  And since you cannot transfer any gun without running it through a licensed dealer, private transfers are frozen.  If you don't have the guns you want/need, you aren't getting them until these "orders" are lifted.  With a flick of the pen, the Governor has totally shut down the sale of all firearms and ammo.

 

But the Governor has never been to our range, and probably not to any range in the state.  I seriously doubt that he has any idea what goes on there, or how close (or far) people are when they are there.  He does not know if you are more likely to spread the virus in a gun club than in a drugstore or a gas station or a convenience store.  But you can go to the corner grocery, stand in line with a dozen other folks, and get your 6 pack and cigars.  You just cannot exercise your Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

And I am just as certain that he and "his people" saw a political opportunity to look "tough on guns" and took it.  We can't have a bunch of rednecks buying guns and ammo in a panic, and shooting up the streets.  We'll just close them all down; who will listen to any complaint?  

 

At any rate, it wasn't the Governor who came out to the range and ordered it to close; that was the police.  You can dress that up any way you want; you can claim that they were "just following orders"; you can call it a "public health emergency"; but the bottom line is that the police showed up at the range and ordered it closed.  So even if you had the foresight to stock up on guns and ammo, you cannot use them.  

 

I think my assessment of whether police officers would obey an order to confiscate guns from legal owners just shifted a hair.  I can't believe that I just said that.  But the loss of rights occurs incrementally.  It starts out small, with what seems like a logical justification.  And then a little more.  And then a little more.  And before you know it, it's gone.  Now try to get it back.

 

I think I need to get out in the fresh air.

 

LL

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LL,  right you are. Things will never return to “normal”. 

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Yep blame it on those nasty police 

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23 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Then use their tactic against them by joining their platform (running for office) and then slowly change the liberals ways from within?

You can't polish a turd, nor can you pick it up by the clean end. 

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50 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Actually, the Governor declared the gun businesses and ranges "essential", and then hours later changed his mind and declared them "non-essential".  Since his general order required the closing of non-essential businesses, that swept the range into the pot, along with every gun retailer in the state.  That means that you cannot buy, sell or transfer a gun anywhere in this Commonwealth; that you cannot buy ammunition; and that you cannot buy reloading components.  And since we already have a ban on internet ammo/components purchasing, you better hope that your supplies are flush.  And since you cannot transfer any gun without running it through a licensed dealer, private transfers are frozen.  If you don't have the guns you want/need, you aren't getting them until these "orders" are lifted.  With a flick of the pen, the Governor has totally shut down the sale of all firearms and ammo.

 

But the Governor has never been to our range, and probably not to any range in the state.  I seriously doubt that he has any idea what goes on there, or how close (or far) people are when they are there.  He does not know if you are more likely to spread the virus in a gun club than in a drugstore or a gas station or a convenience store.  But you can go to the corner grocery, stand in line with a dozen other folks, and get your 6 pack and cigars.  You just cannot exercise your Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

And I am just as certain that he and "his people" saw a political opportunity to look "tough on guns" and took it.  We can't have a bunch of rednecks buying guns and ammo in a panic, and shooting up the streets.  We'll just close them all down; who will listen to any complaint?  

 

At any rate, it wasn't the Governor who came out to the range and ordered it to close; that was the police.  You can dress that up any way you want; you can claim that they were "just following orders"; you can call it a "public health emergency"; but the bottom line is that the police showed up at the range and ordered it closed.  So even if you had the foresight to stock up on guns and ammo, you cannot use them.  

 

I think my assessment of whether police officers would obey an order to confiscate guns from legal owners just shifted a hair.  I can't believe that I just said that.  But the loss of rights occurs incrementally.  It starts out small, with what seems like a logical justification.  And then a little more.  And then a little more.  And before you know it, it's gone.  Now try to get it back.

 

I think I need to get out in the fresh air.

 

LL

The police in Colorado recently arrested a man for playing in the park with his six year old daughter.  

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4 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

If the boot fits, wear it.

 

LL

Just remember when the s$$t hits fan and you need real help don’t dial 911 after all you don’t need one of those hated police to come save your sorry butt

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12 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

The police in Colorado recently arrested a man for playing in the park with his six year old daughter.  

And of course what is the rest of the story 

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2 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

Just remember when the s$$t hits fan and you need real help don’t dial 911 after all you don’t need one of those hated police to come save your sorry butt

 

Har!!  You need to meet some of my local cops!!! :P

 

HTH, don't take any of this personally.  And you cannot surmise that a critical comment on one action by my PD represents some kind of hatred of or bias against the police.  Many of the officers in my Town belong to my club.  They qualify at our range.  I have no general ax to grind with the PD, but that does not and should not isolate them from valid criticism.  And no matter what criticism I may voice on policy grounds (or Constitutional grounds) I would expect (and I believe I would receive) a fully professional response by the local PD.  When you were serving, I'm sure there was an occasion when some local character who gave you a hard time needed help, and you gave it.  That was your oath, and your duty.  

 

This virus thing is as close to s$$t hitting the fan as anything that has occurred recently; and this willingness of the police (and the Governor) to shut down the exercise of 2nd Amendment rights is troubling and worth debating. 

 

That's not hatred of the police; it's concern for the protection of everyone's rights.

 

LL

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24 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

And was there signage stating that the park was closed?

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22 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

Har!!  You need to meet some of my local cops!!! :P

 

HTH, don't take any of this personally.  And you cannot surmise that a critical comment on one action by my PD represents some kind of hatred of or bias against the police.  Many of the officers in my Town belong to my club.  They qualify at our range.  I have no general ax to grind with the PD, but that does not and should not isolate them from valid criticism.  And no matter what criticism I may voice on policy grounds (or Constitutional grounds) I would expect (and I believe I would receive) a fully professional response by the local PD.  When you were serving, I'm sure there was an occasion when some local character who gave you a hard time needed help, and you gave it.  That was your oath, and your duty.  

 

This virus thing is as close to s$$t hitting the fan as anything that has occurred recently; and this willingness of the police (and the Governor) to shut down the exercise of 2nd Amendment rights is troubling and worth debating. 

 

That's not hatred of the police; it's concern for the protection of everyone's rights.

 

LL

And as far as I know not a single court has ruled on the Constitutionality of these orders.

And yes I enforced a lot of laws I didn’t agree with. Officers do have some discretion in minor instances but like everyone else they must follow all reasonably and responsible lawful orders of their superior officers 

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14 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And was there signage stating that the park was closed?

Nope.  The signage said the park was open to groups of no more than four.  He was in a group of three. If you watch the video below you'll see a freeze frame of the signage at .50 mark.  You'll also see that when they ask him for ID and he refuses they threaten to handcuff him in front of his daughter if he doesn't produce it. 

 

https://kdvr.com/news/man-arrested-in-front-of-daughter-at-brighton-park-for-allegedly-violating-social-distancing/

 

So, he's legally using the park based on the new, posted, Covid inspired rules and is approached and asked to show ID.  What's the probable cause for that?  Or are we at a point where citizens can be stopped for no reason and asked for their 'papers'?

 

When he refuses, which he has a legal right to do, they threaten to handcuff him in retaliation, on camera.  Then they do it.  

 

It wasn't that long ago that two 10 year olds were charged with a felony (in Colorado) for pointing a nerf gun and nerf crossbow at passing cars.  Is it something in the water?

 

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/03/04/overreach-two-10-year-old-boys-arrested-charged-with-felony-menacing-for-playing-with-toy-nerf-guns/

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Then the officer deserved what he got 

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Lest I say something that might be misinterpreted, I’ll say nothing. 

I reckon I’ll just go out on the porch and watch the dog park.

The gun shops and linker stores here are still open because ‘Merica! :lol:

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I don't believe we have had any reported incidences here of police action regarding enforcement of 'shut-down' rules. In fact, our governor (of whom I'm no fan) has repeatedly stated that law enforcement will not be taxed with this, except in some extreme situation. Compliance is both mandatory, and self-policing. 

 

Both our governor and attorney general have said they will enforce business non-compliance, if necessary, through civil action and licensing avenues, if 'jawboning' doesn't work. I'm unaware of the police 'closing down' any business, and I agree that sending the cops to close down a range is extremely dubious.

 

I think this is wise policy, on many grounds; not least being the question of what 'crime', if any, the police would be enforcing. This is an open legal question in many states. Emergency 'shut-down' orders may be lawful, but violation may not be a crime. I hope, in places where there is police enforcement, that they know what 'crime' is being committed-- the police don't have general jurisdiction to enforce civil orders.

 

To me the whole thing comes down to- how long? Every one of these restrictions impinges some Constitutional right, not just those which incidentally impact firearms purchases because of 'non-essential' business rules.

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